9th faction: Dwarf Treasure Seekers

Discussion in 'Bugs / Suggestions / Support' started by Perl Fisher, Apr 5, 2020.

  1. Perl Fisher Private

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    As you have probably noted, Dwarf Treasure Seekers (not Hunters) are now listed as the ninth faction with the status “coming soon”.
    I thought, that we might as well make any suggestions, we have, now during the pre-pre-release phase, instead of post-release when everything is settled.

    For one I would like to see dwarfs with move higher than the 3/3 of the Troll Slayer, which is frustratingly slow.
    Also how about they were NOT allowed their old archenemies the Ogres as hired sword.

    How about you?
  2. CzaRus Major

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    I'M GONNA STOP YOU RIGHT THERE!
    Where did ya see the announcement of Dwarves as 9th warband??? The votes are clear for Orks. Dwarves have 19 votes, Orks got 23, and there was no final decision made yet, to my knowledge of a commoner, that is. Please, would you kindly point where to look at it? I WANT MY ORKS!!!
    Perl Fisher likes this.
  3. Erkebrand Major

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    If you update the game to latest version you can see it when you click on new band, with the old ones you can see the dwarven logo and "coming soon" in the description. I think orcs and dwarves get almost the same votes, and maybe the reason of releasing the dwarves is cause the models are done, I don't really know.

    About the perks I will like to have them with something like a third hand, to allow them to carry a shield on the back when they're not in combat and be able to tank more in melee even being marksman. They will need ranged with that movement.

    Something like quick reactions but stronger could be nice when somebody wants to troll you because of their low movement. Skaven could run around you, just throwing shurikens and you could never charge them, so they may need some kind of melee super glue, (1/2 movement to any character moving out of combat??)

    It may he a bit boring and slow to play with just 3 movement, but they are dwarves, they are known for making people come instead of needing their movement to reach the enemy.
    CzaRus likes this.
  4. Algirdas25 Major

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    Lore wise they have acess to ranged weaponry
  5. Perl Fisher Private

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    ———

    He said it.
  6. Shangular Brigadier

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    But with those stunted legs, how can they go faster than 3/3 would bowling over? Perhaps they would get 2 upgrades of Resilient to offset? or they can just hire 4 Elves.
  7. Algirdas25 Major

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    Elves in dwarf warband?
    Excuse me but What da f...?
    studer1972 likes this.
  8. Perl Fisher Private

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    Halflings with equally stunted legs start with a speed of 4/4, and can take Sprint for 5/5, making them faster than most Reikländers. Just saying.
    CzaRus likes this.
  9. Algirdas25 Major

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    Halfflings don run in full gromil armor and shields, anihilating anything that. They got thier axes/mauls on
  10. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    I’m trying to keep an open mind about the Dwarf Treasure Seekers but I’m a bit apprehensive. Troll Slayers don’t contribute nearly enough to warrant their rating and an entire warband of them would be awful. They’re not hard to kill; they’re practically effortless. It would be extremely difficult to go even a single match without at least one member suffering a death or an injury. And that’s just against the AI! I haven’t tested this but, with an entire warband only capable of 3/3 movement, I suspect most players would fail the overwhelming majority of 8 and 10 turn objective missions.

    The developers are clearly intelligent and capable people and I’m sure there will be differences between Slayers and Seekers but I see the “portents of a trend” as my stochastic calculus professor would say. Given the nature of the Dark Pact skill tree, the Possessed are relatively impractical to initially level without spending fate on at least Blessing of Morr. Based on the performance of Slayers, I think it’s reasonable to fear that Seekers will be impractical to even play without doing the same.

    If, like Treasure Hunters, these Treasure Seekers can wear armor (with Gromril being dirt cheap until hiring the 8th member), can hire an Engineer (who increases the range of missile weapons for the whole party), get extra shards, have a more conservative power rating than Troll Slayers, and are genuinely hard to kill, then they just might be one of the best warbands yet.

    Oh, and if thunderers can equip a flagon in their opposite hand then Treasure Seekers just might be the best warband ever.


    67EDA751-B337-4F63-A98C-F80838357E75.jpeg
  11. Algirdas25 Major

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    troll slayers are easy to kill thanks to their low initiative/lack of armor and movemnt
    easy to snipe and all
    now try snipe someone that have 75-85(or maybe even more) armor
    studer1972 likes this.
  12. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    That would probably be ideal for them but they may need more. With no speed skills, no shooting skills (for 6/8), no movement, no initiative, and no way to hide, every Treasure Seeker warband could aptly be named the Sitting Ducks. They’ll have to have vampire levels of armor on mobile just to be viable. Even then, it’s probably realistic to assume that they will still die to the last man without ever getting a turn whenever they face sufficiently leveled Skaven or ranged warbands with elves.

    Treasure Hunters only worked in table top because level 20 opponents were unthinkable. The fact that these are called Treasure Seekers instead gives me hope, however, that the devs recognize this and are working to give us the spiritual successor to Treasure Hunters that is perfect for mobile and a joy to play.
    studer1972 likes this.
  13. Shangular Brigadier

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    If they can get 2 upgrades of Resilient so they can reach 90 defense like Vampires and if they can get an upgrade of Armor Training so that they don't suffer movement penalty when wearing gromil and shield, I think the 3/3 movement can be viable. Hopefully the Engineers get some speed skills as they should have Ambush.

    Of course certain scenarios they'll have a harder time such as Treasure Hunt (ironic that Treasure Hunters would suck at a Treasure Hunt scenario) but that's what hired swords are for. Yes elves look at Felix and Gortrek, their best buds ;)
    studer1972 likes this.
  14. CzaRus Major

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    I hope they will get the Iron Breakers with bombs included. That would be epic.
  15. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    Dwarves aren’t supposed to suffer movement penalties for wearing armor so hopefully we won’t even have to invest in Armor Training because it will be innate. Engineers didn’t have speed skills before but it would be nice if they did this time around especially since their dedicated ranged units, the thunderers, lacked shooting skills. If I had to choose between the two, I’d rather have shooting skills for everyone because the extra range for missile weapons means nothing if you have to waste a turn just to reload.

    On TT, any weapon a dwarf could wield could also be purchased as gromril—even spears. If they do make it so that only two can even shoot worth a damn, then gromril spears with high crit might be a very cool Treasure Seeker unique weapon that could help fill the gap.
    studer1972 likes this.
  16. Erkebrand Major

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    Maybe adding something like gutter runner for them but specific from dwarves could be nice for the beginning of the matches, then walk with your tortoise with 3 movement with tons of armor.

    It could not be in speed skills, it could be a no sense, but in academic could be nice. They have a long tradition as miners, it may have some sense, and this could depend on leadership or strength and could be variable depending on the character, like blessed waters range. Imagine something like moving strength/+-4or 5 at the beginning. Like the flight spell but once per battle when you start
    CzaRus likes this.
  17. studer1972 Corporal

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    The first edition warhammer fantasy rpg had dwarven tunnel runners with enhanced movement.
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  18. Perl Fisher Private

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    Maybe they could get a discount, when they buy Crimson Shade in bulk? That would give them the Move, they needed ;-)
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  19. CzaRus Major

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    Yeah, I thought about bringing up the ability to buy large amounts of consumables with a discount. And most consumables are terribly overpriced imo. Healing herbs 30+ gold 1use (where warrior priests cast it every turn for nothing) is quite a lot when you still have to buy other equipment and such. Dark venom? Doesn't work 50% of the time, 30+ gold as well for not really great dmg buff. Black lotus is trash. Hunting arrows and better blackpowder are a big nono as well, since these only have 1 use for 30+ gold, too. Blunderbuss deserves increase in price, it is stupidly cheap (below 30 gold) for how good it is, and you keep it forever. Just some thoughts on the subject.....
  20. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    After significant and painful testing, it’s apparent to me that a movement of 3, initiative starting as low as 15, and maps optimized for movement 5 and greater all add up to a serious problem. For future parties that are likely to have missed the original, I’m going to repost the relevant portion of a comment I made elsewhere in the forum about an experiment I did:

    “While I win the overwhelming majority of my matches in both single player and PVP regardless of the warband I choose, there is a single exception where this trend is turned completely on its head and I loose the vast majority of the games I play. It is a Witch Hunter warband containing 1 captain, 1 priest, and 3 troll slayers.

    “To increase my win ratio to around 80%, all I’d have to do is dismiss one Troll Slayer. It's apparent though that no amount of leveling afterward would increase my win ratio back to where it is with all my other warbands. However, I could make those gains immediately just by dismissing a second Troll Slayer.

    “Both humans had broken legs for a while thereby capping movement for the entire team at 3. Based on this experience I can say that the maps in this game clearly weren't designed with 3/3 movement in mind. Every map contains holes in its grid that render covered traversal completely impossible for 3/3 units. As a result, this warband is mechanically incapable of reaching the objective in nearly all 10 turn missions and the majority of 8 turn objective missions without being exposed and either killed by ranged fire or rushed by melee units who then kill everyone else before they even get a turn. 10 turn missions are such an automatic fail for that warband that I will now no longer play them at all opting instead to quit the game. Why play a mission where the warband is physically incapable of completing it?

    “Hunting for wyrdstone missions are typically only possible to complete thanks to the two non-dwarfs. Even then, it’s typically only possible to get one shard before being engaged in battle. The maximum shards obtainable for these missions are never collected. This is a trivial task for me with any other warband but collecting even half with these dwarves has thus far proven elusive.

    “My experience suggests a serious flaw with the upcoming Treasure Seekers. Unless they have significant armor and some mitigating skills (like ranged shard collection), missions that demand they move need to be skippable.”

    Dwarves on TT had one wound like most units but were half as likely to be taken out of action. At the low levels most games were fought, this made them awesome. On mobile, the levels are much higher and the wound system is so different that their main gimmick isn’t even applicable. The single racial characteristic most responsible for making dwarves viable is a mechanic completely missing from the game!

    My experience with Troll Slayers in this warband AFTER their update has made me grow to HATE them. I’m sorry I bought them and I’m never going to buy another damn crap dwarf again. Even though I paid for Blessing of Morr and Blessing of Verena yesterday, I’ve deleted the game from my phone. I don’t give a shit about dwarves any more. I won’t buy them, I won’t play them, and I won’t care what’s done with them. The Possessed are still shit, Troll Slayers are obviously still shit, and I won’t be tricked again.

    I’ll come back to the game eventually but not to buy dwarves. I do however sincerely hope the Treasure Seekers turn out to be a wonderful experience for the rest you.
    Double Misfire likes this.

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