Balance and Progression

Wizard9er

Corporal
A new Warrior comes with 3 skill points brand new in the tavern.

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My Veteran Warrior was level 14 before the update and is now level 11 after the update. I spent the following points upon leveling up :
+ Combat = 3 points
+ Shooting = 5 points
+ Strength = 8 points
= 16 total points

16 Total Points
- 3 Starting points
- 11 Current Level
= 2 Extra skill points

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Wizard9er

Corporal
In this experiment for the Undead, it seems the new balance system is against them

A new Ghoul starts with 1 Skill from the Crypt
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My Veteran Ghoul was Level 8 before the update, and is still level 8 after the patch.... however, here are the points listed:=

+ Combat skills = 2
+ Strength = 3
5 total points

If my Ghoul is level 8, shouldn't they have 8 total skill points?

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Deadhiel

Corporal
@Gurslak Out of curiosity, do you have any skills apart from the starting set? I'm guessing he is not fresh from the Tavern?

You def shouldn't face a WB with a Vamp.. that's just plain stupid.

Were the missions you did the random ones or could you see what type and ranking they had? Maybe the "random" second mission choice has too much variance with rank threshold?.

Edited... sorry, didn't read your post properly.. damn, so he was fresh and just had equipment.. that's plain crazy with the matchups you got!!!

I can only imagine it was mission 2, the random one as your ranking should not have placed you with the matchs you got???
 

Gurslak

Corporal
@Gurslak Out of curiosity, do you have any skills apart from the starting set? I'm guessing he is not fresh from the Tavern?

You def shouldn't face a WB with a Vamp.. that's just plain stupid.

Were the missions you did the random ones or could you see what type and ranking they had? Maybe the "random" second mission choice has too much variance with rank threshold?.

Edited... sorry, didn't read your post properly.. damn, so he was fresh and just had equipment.. that's plain crazy with the matchups you got!!!

I can only imagine it was mission 2, the random one as your ranking should not have placed you with the matchs you got???
Indeed, both were mission 2, thus the random ones.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
I also noticed that Pit Fighters now start at level 1, yet keep all the skills they had before (I believe they started at lvl 12 before the update). Not sure if this was intentional but now they are definitely work buying :)
 

Gurslak

Corporal
Apparently adding a Hochland Long Rifle & the Hunter skill blows up your rating by 100pts. That's huge at lower levels, it took my band firm 180 to 280 and against vastly superior warbands with equipment, skills and even number of members.

I honestly think this new system shoukd just be scrapped, not tweaked, not altered, just scrapped. There wasn't an issue with the old version, ok occasionally you'd run into a 1 man band killing machine, but far fewer problems if thatsceven considered one. Thus version is awful and full of problems, making playing painful.
 

Gurslak

Corporal
I need to amend the above statement. I've lost two marksmen and my rating dropped to 223. If I remove the Hochland Long Rifle it drops to 73, a 150pt difference!
It doesn't matter how good that weapon is, it's not enough to make up that big if a difference, it shows how low level the warbands is when you remove it and to expect one weapon to make up that much difference is crazy.

Edit: What this and my other experiences have taught me, is not to equip any good equipment. Wait until your guys are high level, maybe even just stash the level ups and assign only a limited number of skills, equip crappy weapons and hope you're not screwed by the new matchmaking system too badly. Then once you've got enough skills and equipment stored up, apply it all and hopefully you're in a position to compete.
It's counter intuitive to the game and not really in it's ethos either, but this is the world we now live in and it seems like the best way to work within the new system.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
After playing with a new warband more, I agree with Gurslak above, the rating increase for certain equipment seems to be too excessive. From my experience so far, the new rating system seems to work fine with established and high ranking warbands (my top one at 9,500 has no problems). But it is harder for new warbands to develop because of the match-ups. So yes, I've learned to just stash equipment for now until they can level up.

Theoretically, the significant bump in rating due to equipment such as the sniper rifle doesn't make sense because that weapon actually isn't effective if you are at low levels using it (i.e. if you BS is low, and you can't shoot every turn, etc.) Perhaps if you can create a scalable point value that factors in the weapon in addition to the warrior's stats this system could work better. So for example, low level using the rifle only bumps it up by 20 and a maxed out marksman with it exponentially increases the rating to 80.
 

Gurslak

Corporal
After playing with a new warband more, I agree with Gurslak above, the rating increase for certain equipment seems to be too excessive. From my experience so far, the new rating system seems to work fine with established and high ranking warbands (my top one at 9,500 has no problems). But it is harder for new warbands to develop because of the match-ups. So yes, I've learned to just stash equipment for now until they can level up.

Theoretically, the significant bump in rating due to equipment such as the sniper rifle doesn't make sense because that weapon actually isn't effective if you are at low levels using it (i.e. if you BS is low, and you can't shoot every turn, etc.) Perhaps if you can create a scalable point value that factors in the weapon in addition to the warrior's stats this system could work better. So for example, low level using the rifle only bumps it up by 20 and a maxed out marksman with it exponentially increases the rating to 80.

I agree. At higher levels it appears to be working fine. My 1800 warbands hasn't been negatively affected at all, I've had onectricky matchup where I got an underdog bonus of +1, it would have been easier with a different scenario actually, despite the rating difference. It really is the lower warbands that are so grossly affected.
 

Deadhiel

Corporal
The only down side to a low and slow increase in rating (and I fully agree it's the only way to get good matchups) is we end up stuck with only 2-4 maps and that includes the cemetery and memorial gardens hitch I hate with a passion. It's boring playing the same maps over and over (except the Imperial Stables.. love that map).
 

Amaan Shawkath

Junior Software Developer
Staff member
After playing with a new warband more, I agree with Gurslak above, the rating increase for certain equipment seems to be too excessive. From my experience so far, the new rating system seems to work fine with established and high ranking warbands (my top one at 9,500 has no problems). But it is harder for new warbands to develop because of the match-ups. So yes, I've learned to just stash equipment for now until they can level up.

Theoretically, the significant bump in rating due to equipment such as the sniper rifle doesn't make sense because that weapon actually isn't effective if you are at low levels using it (i.e. if you BS is low, and you can't shoot every turn, etc.) Perhaps if you can create a scalable point value that factors in the weapon in addition to the warrior's stats this system could work better. So for example, low level using the rifle only bumps it up by 20 and a maxed out marksman with it exponentially increases the rating to 80.
That is how the system works currently. When you equip a weapon it checks your skills as well, if you have a lot of the Balistic skills unlocked your power rating will increase with that weapon.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
That is how the system works currently. When you equip a weapon it checks your skills as well, if you have a lot of the Balistic skills unlocked your power rating will increase with that weapon.
Maybe it’s just the initial value for the sniper rifle that may be too high. But playing more this weekend with my 4 ogres, my new warband seems to be doing fine against the rating matchups. In fact it’s done well against warbands that are higher rated where I get the underdog bonus. My marksman still are armed with handguns though and my captain only has ithilmar. So perhaps the tweaks need to be made only to certain items like the sniper rifle and not sure about gromil armour although I’ve heard it significant fly bumps up your rating.
 

nahar

Private
Is it correct that reikland warrirors and marksman lost acess to speed skill list? I ve return to Mordheim after some times and now my Glencoe Guards warriors and marksmen have free skill points instead of speed list (only upgrade Inc is possible).
 

farseer

Major
I've just seen a giant jump. I warband rating is 1809. I changed my weapon from Gromril Axe and Shield to an Ostland Grat axe and my rating jumped to 2668. 859 points to Increase move from 5/4 to 5/5 and Strength +25 and to Decrease Defense -15, Initiative -10 and Critical Chance -5%. Seems a bit steep, or Strength as a stat has A LOT of weight to it.

Other big issue here is that the Town Cryer does not accommodate immediately for those changes. It's still trying to offer me a New Territory against a 1999 rating and a PVAI against a 1777 rating. I'll post this bit in Bugs.
 
I've just seen a giant jump. I warband rating is 1809. I changed my weapon from Gromril Axe and Shield to an Ostland Grat axe and my rating jumped to 2668. 859 points to Increase move from 5/4 to 5/5 and Strength +25 and to Decrease Defense -15, Initiative -10 and Critical Chance -5%. Seems a bit steep, or Strength as a stat has A LOT of weight to it.

Other big issue here is that the Town Cryer does not accommodate immediately for those changes. It's still trying to offer me a New Territory against a 1999 rating and a PVAI against a 1777 rating. I'll post this bit in Bugs.
Yeah I have had this issue, actually when switching watbands.
I switch from my 2k rated warband to a starting out one, and got a 108xp survival bonus coming up against a 2k rated warband.
 
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