Bug - Super Henchmen cloning

Discussion in 'Bugs / Suggestions / Support' started by Cyberaddict, Jan 24, 2019.

  1. Cyberaddict Major

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    If you buy a Henchman (down to 3 in Tavern), reboot the app, and then go back to Tavern, a 4th Henchman will have filled the vacant spot (always the last position), and this one will be a perfect clone of the Henchman you previously purchased. You can repeat that process as many times as you want, and fill your roster with unfair units.

    I realised this myself after buying that second Henchman for the Warband I'm submitting to the League of Mordheim Marauders. I bought Henchman #1 this morning. A few hours later, after equipping Leader and that Henchman, I went back to the Tavern to check if there was another Henchman worth hiring. I was quite excited when I saw the Tavern was refilled with a 4th Henchman, and one with super good stats. I instantly hired him, and it's only in the Camp that I realised it was a perfect clone of the first Henchman I bought. I investigated this further, only to find out another clone was always ready for hire after rebooting the app.

    This is a very annoying bug from a League perspective, as it is possible to roll dice until you get the perfect Henchman (this pollutes the Archives), and when you have it, you can clone/buy it as many times as your Treasury allows (3 for most Factions, 4 for Zealots, Verminkin and Marienburgers ; and now up to 7 times, as you can now convert Fate to gold).

    With such an easy way to remove variance from the game, I would suggest you DON'T fix this bug, and instead put standard and average stats on all Henchmen (and even Hired Swords). There are no dice rolling in Table Top Mordheim when you Start a Warband, and all units of the same type have the same Stats.

    It is my beleif that the variance you added to the Henchmen and Hired Swords adds nothing to the game, but instead only creates a bunch of problems. The most obvious one, from your corporate perspective, is the Archives being crowded with Warbands players instantly discard to reroll a new Tavern. From a League and PVP perspective, it creates loopholes smart players will abuse from.

    I don't think any players will complain if units get standardized. It's that way in all Games Workshop miniature-based products : Bloodbowl, Warhammer Fantasy Battle and 40K, etc. It would help yoursefl and the community if you take that step.

    There's already enough variance and dice rolling when we actually play Mordheim. There's no reason to add more before you actually start playing it.
  2. Cyberaddict Major

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    Gee, I wish I could Like my own post. This is a super important issue, IMHO. Legendary Games server will only be happy if you fix these stats to average, and the community will spend more time playing (and spending Fate) and less rolling dice for that perfect starting Henchman.
  3. FlaminGallahs2089 Major

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    My Idea ages ago was not standardising stats.
    But actually standardising total stats...

    So each still have a range, but you can never get the perfect warior.
    Asmif they are strong in one area they have to be wewk in another, so it makes uniqueness, yet evens the playing feild.

    I think either Shangular or Trapsinger came up with a much better way to explain it though as I am not great with my words.
  4. Cyberaddict Major

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    I understand what you mean perfectly. Every Henchmen get low stats, and a pool of points to invest in them. That would be great, but I can imagine people dumping Leadership or Ballistic Skill to build super soldiers and the like. It would not do well for balance, and it would be pretty hard for Developers to fix that.

    If we all agree that the random stats are an hindrance, not an advantage, then the first step would be to have standard average stats, like in TT. That would already be an improvement, as well as solving the Cloning bug and saving precious space on the server (delete those Warbands with rating under 10).
  5. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but, for my money, I hate having identical members in my warbands so I loathe the cloning bug. I have three Ogres in the same warband that look exactly alike with nearly identical stats. Two of them are literally exact duplicates down the name. I think Trapsinger’s customization suggestion in another thread is spot on. I think the goal of variable states was to make units feel more natural and individual. I think they’ve succeeded very well in doing that.

    PS
    For anyone thinking “Ah ha! Another jerk with three Ogres in their warband. That’s what you get you Ogre loving jerk!” I had participated in a discussion a while back where people were claiming to be inundated by Ogre hoards while I had never faced more than two at a time. As weird as it sounds, I built an eight member Witch Hunter warband called the Fervent Five with three Ogres in hopes that it might somehow put me in a pool to fight 3-4 Ogre warbands. It worked...sort of. I’ve had five or six encounters since then. Comparatively, it isn’t many but it isn’t zero either.
  6. Cyberaddict Major

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    Mmm... You do have good points. I see Mordheim as a variant of Bloodbowl. One team against another, a bloody fight. In Bloodbowl, a team is usual made of Linemen and some positions like Blitzers, Throwers and Catchers. They're pretty much all the same with a few differences in the beginning (Throwers are Linemen with a reroll when they throw the ball). But as the team progresses, each player gets more specialized in its role. A Lineman can develop into a Kicker, some others into Blockers to hold the Line of Scrimmage, a Catcher that gets +1 Agility can become an Interceptor, a Thrower could be more offensive (very good at throwing) while another would be used defensively (as a safety when your team gets to steal the ball from the opposition). It's the Skill system that differentiate them when they level up, and how you use them. This is what is most exciting about development in Bloodbowl : personalize the players (and you only get 3-4 levels to do that, not 10-20 ; players retire at a young age in Bloodbowl).

    From my point of view, all Henchmen could start the same but develop in very different directions, depending on what you need them to do for your Warband. After all, isn't that exactly how it is in Table Top Mordheim? It wouldn't take long (2-3 levels, less than 10 games... an hour?) to have very different units.

    Anyway, the key problem is the server polluted with unnecessary files (Warbands discarded immediately because the Tavern has no Henchman worth hiring), and the bug that allows players to Clone a Henchman. If they can solve both, and add a feature to reduce the variance in Henchmen (base stats + pool of points to distribute), I would be happy myself. But if they can't, and revert to standard stats, it would be no worse than good old TT Mordheim, and I wouldn't complain.

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