Could we modify the Possessed Magister hood?

Discussion in 'Bugs / Suggestions / Support' started by Shangular, Jun 9, 2020.

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  1. Shangular Brigadier

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    I'm playing this on my phone and my wife asks me why am I playing a game as the KKK? I'm not and I realize that the magister hood and all of it's variants (Agent and Executioner) have its origins not to the KKK and it also mirrors the old GW/citadel models. But it does trouble me if someone sees me playing this game and suddenly associates it with the KKK at first glance.

    In light of all that's happening in the world today with the George Floyd protest, would it make sense to modify the hood? Not trying to make a game forum political, but perhaps it could be a good gesture. A hooded cowl like many chaos sorcerers use would work perfectly. I know we've changed the Necromancer's head before, not sure the reason why, so wondering if we could do the same here?
  2. Cyberaddict Major

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    Totally agree. One of the reason I’ll never buy the Possessed is that they look like KKK. Totally against my core principles.
  3. Algirdas25 Major

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    i disagree , i prefer their look now (becouse they looks similiar to tt version )
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  4. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    One of the original necromancer face designs looked horrified rather than angry. It was actually quite funny but obviously didn’t fit the look they were going for so it was replaced.

    As for the hoods, tell people that human skin color varies clinally and is therefore biologically irrelevant to the scientific notion of race. Humans come in different sizes, shapes, and colors—and none of it means a damn thing. In fact, according to modern anthropology, no group of modern humans meets the criteria to be considered a separate race from the others. Race, as it is commonly understood, is nothing more than a political and economic idea and has no biological or scientific basis. Biologically, we are all the same race and that race comes in different sizes, shapes, and colors. And y’all need to get over it because the machines are coming.

    That ought to shut them up because arguing with you would make THEM racist! :p
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  5. Cyberaddict Major

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    Your arguments are valid, but I think you miss the point. It’s not just about racism. It’s about playing a Warband (or against one) that wear the KKK hood, and all it represents. Time is changing, and we should all show solidarity. These artifacts (the hood) should remain in the past, and not be played with in the present or future.

    And if GW has some sense, they’ll soon change the look of TT miniatures.
  6. Cyberaddict Major

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  7. Cyberaddict Major

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    It was only a matter of time... I'm grinding with Map of Mordheim with a new Warband (Witch Hunters), and met this AI opponent. All in good taste... *sarcasm*

    Frankly, I wish this name (and the spelling Klan) can be declared Offensive Content. Gee, you can't put "Master" in a unit's name, but you can do that? Whoever - now and in the future - think it is funny to do so, needs to be reminded that it is Offensive Content, the very moment it is typed in. It's the least Legendary Games can do.

    Even without that name, these units in white are offensive to look at. The hood is the problem : it is very emblematic, and full of history better forgotten. Bend a knee and change it, please.

    And while you're at it, just please delete that Warband (around 100 rating). It makes me sick.
  8. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    I didn’t miss the point. I was simply offering a solution that requires no effort on the part of the developers while simultaneously educating the person that accosts him. After all, just because a defunct group of murderous idiots used to wear something that resembles the capirote doesn’t invalidate it as the symbol of the Catholic penitent. Or the mad devotees of chaos. ;)
  9. Erkebrand Major

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    I'm in disagree, absolutely, if devs want to make new hood skins for politically correct people, I don't care. if the white colour gets removed, I don't care, if we have darker colors to make feel happy the dark goods, it will be nice. But this is a game, and that's all. If this PC policy goes ahead we will lose the sense, and we have Disney changing the race of any of their films actors cause we have full with colour the world.

    This kind of hoods are used in many religious orders in real life, here, in Spain, in semana Santa there are people carrying The virgin and nobody cares if they are wearing a colored version of the KKK costume. Here just nobody cares, and there are black Christian people wearing this kind of clothes. For me the way the chaos cultist where made are just a joke for the Christian's, giving their clothes to the dark goods followers, and I liked it.

    If we go this way next step is to make female middenheim fighters. Then a rainbow of colour for choosing skin tones for your fighters. Do we want this? The things happening in USA are a shame, and are happening in this century, it's insane, but at least the people is outside taking the streets to ensure their voices are listened. That's not a game.

    I'm "white" and not racist, I don't trust on any good, I don't feel any gender or skin colour is under my habilites.
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  10. Erkebrand Major

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  11. Shangular Brigadier

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    I agree that the warband pictured above should be flagged for offensive content. The owner of that warband probably meant it as a joke but imo not a tasteful one.

    I understand that the origins of the hood isn't KKK as mentioned in my original post, but based on Catholic tradition just like the swastika symbol originated in India and meant something completely different than what many associated it with today and its easy to explain this to open minded people. I've played GW games for years and am okay with Possessed look because I do understand origins of that hood and the executioner style hood was also common in medieval Europe when executions where a sentence. You and I know this but there could be many ignorant people who don't. Of course I'd never customize mine to white color robes as I could see how that could be blatantly offensive.

    I was only asking this now given the opportunity that Legendary could use this change as good PR to support an important social movement and if they were to announce this change in their media sites, it could give them a chance to also introduce their company and game to new people on a positive note. I would think we can all agree that this game needs more new players. Perhaps a news outlet would also take note and mention Legendary in one of their articles if anyone near Legendary's local area has any connections with the news.
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  12. Algirdas25 Major

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    seriusly? Is it that big problem that somebody named HIS warband kkk and make them look similair ? cannot you just ignore it or somethink ?
  13. Cyberaddict Major

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    We have different opinions, obviously. But these are changing times, and the Black community needs the support of all other communities, particularly from the whites (which I am, from Canada). The KKK and the hoods are too strong symbols to be ignored by any sound organization. You may think this goes too far, and maybe you are right. But for things to really change, the pendulum *has* to go too far before the right balance is eventually found. Such is how changes have always happened.

    I think this subject is very sensitive. Frankly, who would suffer if the hood is removed or changed? No one. Some will be frustrated, but that sentiment is nothing compared to the suffering a whole community has endured for too long. People are asking for a change, to show support for others that need us. Don't ask us to just ignore it, because we are asking you the same : ignore us and let positive changes happen. Don't contribute to the opposition. The world will not be worse without the hood, it will only be better.

    You may think that because it is just a game, it should be fine. I say quite the contrary. Because it is a game, it should not be fine. What they suffered was very real, and they deserve that no one ever has fun with the symbols of their suffering.
  14. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    Between 1881 and 1968, more than 3400 men, women, and children were lynched in the United States because of the color of their skin. And that’s only the confirmed cases. It’s estimated that there are thousands more that were never recorded at all. So yes, it is a big deal. “KKK,” “Ku Klux Klahn,” and all reasonable variants should be tagged as offensive. Otherwise we can all rightly assume that the developers must condone it.

    While they’re at it, Sisters of Sigmar shouldn’t be allowed to be called “bloody hairy boxes,” which is something I saw once, or have “Brothel” in their name.
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  15. Shangular Brigadier

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    Agree. Otherwise what is the point of having an Offensive content filter? If the answer is just ignore everything, you'll have warbands called Kill all Jews or Rape all Women.
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  16. Blackstaff Corporal

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    Tricky subject.

    I've been thinking about this thread whilst bearing in mind my own recent postings about Great Grudge, a skill representing a dwarf's hatred against another group. The grudge comes about because of a specific wrong done to the dwarf, who responds by hating an entire group.

    Sounds a great deal like racism to me.

    But it's not generally considered offensive because it is so immersed in the fantasy setting as to allow separation of our real world values from the game itself.

    The Possessed hoods are trickier but have always fallen into this separate category for me as well. I think the bottom line for me is that while LG does (as it must) follow all applicable laws concerning offensive content, it's not their job to keep the game separate from reality in the minds of the players. In the case of the Possessed they are being true to the tt models, and that is all, in my view.

    Racism and hatred in our world are reprehensible, and should be fought against. But in my opinion this is not a format for that struggle.
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  17. Shangular Brigadier

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    I can see what you're saying and given that I'm one who understands the origins of the hood I would be okay with leaving it. But even if this isn't the format to fight racism and hatred, people who enjoy playing this game shouldn't have to be subject to racism or hatred as that one warband depicted shows. It's very clear what that name implies.
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  18. Blackstaff Corporal

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    If it were up to me, not only would that warband be deleted, but all bands associated with that person's account. That is clearly offensive content that LG is obligated to address.
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  19. Cyberaddict Major

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    In these situation I have a rule of thumb... Pay attention, it helps even solve dispute with your loved ones (works well with my wife).

    How important is the matter to each party? For those who want the hood and keep KKK safe from Offensive Content, how important, 1 to 10, is it to you? My guess : not very highly important. You have an opinion, a strong and valid one, but the matter is not the most important to you. And for those who want to get rid of the hood and to add KKK to Offensive Content, how important is it to them (again, 1 to 10)? Again, my guess : quite important, for all the reasons mentionned already.

    Those that score the highest are those in the right. It's just a matter of identifying who suffers the most from the identified problem, and acknowledging it. If it's not such a bid deal to you, let it go. And let others live a better life with the changes they want to implement.

    Again, this technique works marvel with my wife. And it's not one way. Always it makes me smile when she serves that back to me (hey, I don't have copyright, so she can use it as well). My arguments are sound and valid (and so are hers), but the matter is not as important to me as it is to her. So she's right. Simple.

    Otherwise, we'll argue to the end of the time. Clean and simple way to solve complicate matters.
  20. Blackstaff Corporal

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    And if the entire community wanted the hoods changed, LG would probably do it. That is not the case here. Furthermore KKK language is already considered offensive content. The hoods are not KKK symbols or language, simply put. That player abused the band to push a foolish real world agenda, or just to be a fool, and that is a problem to be addressed with that player.
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