Discord Chat Summary, Jan. 10, 2019

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Trapsinger, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Trapsinger Brigadier

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    Hey Legendary Guys!

    Since you posted the social media links which included Discord for the first time, we got a bunch of new users, and a lot of chat today. Since I'm labeled as a beta tester I spent the day as sort of the unofficial go to guy for the channel, which isn't helpful unless one of you spends your whole day reading through the chat, or I post a summary of major issues. Thusly:

    1. Three separate people reported that they have been unable to purchase Halflings or their related gear even after the update today. Is it possible they didn't quite go as live as intended?

    2. Two separate people asked me if Wyrdstone Hunter, Streetwise, and Haggle stacked if they were used on multiple characters in the same warband. (I was told the answer sometime ago when I asked a dev, but this maybe indicates that the descriptions should be updated).

    3. People are hungry for strategy tips for all the warbands, and Cyberaddict is just as hungry to post some on the wiki. Check that wiki out at: https://mordheim-warband-skirmish.wikia.com/wiki/Mordheim:_Warband_Skirmish_Wiki

    4. The most requested non-original Mordheim rulebook warband is officially Carnival of Chaos. If Legendary decides to develop Mordheim past the original tabletop book, this warband should definitely be considered.

    5. Two separate people were confused as to why Pistols could target people in melee and thowing knives could not. Also there is some confusion as how to know if a weapon has this property when reading the description. Perhaps a new line could be added to ranged weapons which may fire into melee indicating this. And please consider adding this property to throwing knives.
    Jesse Shaffer likes this.
  2. FlaminGallahs2089 Major

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    I so want woodelves, or any elven faction.
    But if we sticking with extended warhammer lore,
    Lizardmen would be crazy fun...

    This game definetly has potential, and I love the genre and theme (even if this wasnt a warhammer classic, a viking/saxon/frank/roman version would be amazing, but the fantasy allows it another level)
    I do hope the developers continue to work on this and continue to improve this as they have done such a great job so far.
  3. Cyberaddict Major

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    Speaking of Wyrdstone Hunter... how does this Skill works actually? Will I see more Shards appear on the map? Or will I generally be awarded more Wyrdstones at the end of a mission?
  4. Oscar Junior Programmer

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    The additional shards are awarded at the end of the mission :)
    Cyberaddict likes this.
  5. Algirdas25 Corporal

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    While i definitely love to see lizard men,
    The elves warbands /any lustra warbands were OP compared to original warbands

    In my Opinion, better to stick with original warbands and focus on more diverse maps / addition rules / more diverse encounters/ and creeps (mordheim feels empty, / new items,..... (that kind of stuff)
    Fistandantilus likes this.
  6. FlaminGallahs2089 Major

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    Yeah I 100% agree.
    They would be nearly impossible to statistically balance them against other warbands.
    Lizardmen, maybe frenzy would be a auto thus making them charge and be more uncontrollable.
    Elves are just elite at everything so no true way to balance them,
    I would settle for a elvish hired sword though, just feels like they need to be represented (same with dwarves which I feel will be included if they extend past current game)

    But the game needs to be completed before any of these new factions introduced.
    I feel we are still a year away from the remaining two warbands.
    And I feel maybe 1v1v1 battles would be interesting or 2v2s...
    Would definetly make for interesting pvp.

    If they wanted to go crazy, not sure the lore but...
    Getting a second city in lustria (a ruined lizardmen city) that stays seperate, old world warbands can travel over but not the other way round.
    This would give us a heap of new maps that feel completely different to our current ones.
    And allow for a lore friendly way to include lustrian warbands.
  7. Trapsinger Brigadier

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    The balance for elves would be no blackpowder and no dwarf gear or heavy armor other than ithilmar. This would limit their max defense significantly, as well as limiting their ability to penetrate armor. They would have to rely on high weapon skill and parry to survive in melee. Also they wouldn't get any strength skills even on their captain. I think they would balance out, they would play a lot like skaven, but with higher leadership instead of the skaven's armor penetration, and no pets.
  8. Double Misfire Major

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    No elf warbands please!

    Anyone who played with or against Shadow Warriors back in the day can argue that they weren't horribly overpowered, even by the standards of Mordhiem's already ropey balance.

    Elf Ranger hired swords are fine, but Shadow Warriors have no in-background reason to be in Mordheim looking for wyrdstone, and the Shadow Warrior warband was only ever written for the Lustria alternate setting/expansion (and even then only as a way of shifting some absolutely horrendous unrealeased WFB sculpts). Yuck!


    Carnival of Chaos, Beastman, Pit Fighter (very easy to implement), and Dwarf Treasure Hunter warbands would be the only extracurricular warbands in keeping with the setting that I think the game would benefit from. (Orcs and Goblins at a push, but they never had a whole lot of justification for entering the city in such small numbers, and never really gelled with the asthetic of theme of Mordheim. Averland and Ostland Mercenaries could be perfectly reasonable additions, but with the way halfling and ogre hired swords have been handled in-game wouldn't really have a niche and would be boring as hell).


    Once Sisters of Sigmar and the Cult of the Possessed are done, instead of more warbands I'd much rather see the devs implement new content like more equipment options (still holding out for my dueling pistols!), Dramatis Personae (as an underdog system against much higher rated warbands), and stuff from Empire in Flames like the narrative scenario set pieces with the stagecoach and the thing in the woods.
    Fistandantilus and Cyberaddict like this.
  9. Trapsinger Brigadier

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    The original purpose of this thread has been kind of derailed but...

    There is still a lot to add from the original tabletop game, if they really want it to be complete. As mentioned there are two more warbands, and several items. But several of the optional rules could also be fun. Like visiting the Pit, or crits having different effects for different weapons (Ricochet would be neat). Also mounts.

    There are two things from the Averlanders and Osterlanders that I think would be great in mordheim, though they might be Hired Sword potential rather than separate warbands, and they are the Jaeger (a marksman that could lay traps on the ground.) and the Priest of Taal (a caster with a spell set that was sort of cross between the Warrior Priest and the Skaven Sorcerer as he could heal and summon a swarm of squirrels). Not to mention I really like the special drunkard skills for the Ostlanders. I'd also love to see the Wolf Priest of Ulric for the Middenheimers.

    Also, since Double Misfire brought it up. I'd love to see this version of the game explore other settings. I think if they started adding some maps for the area around the city then it would be logical enough to include empire in flames stuff with this game, like Orcs. But it might also be cool to make...i don't know what to call it...an expansion? a sequel? Where you used the same ruleset and game engine, but had a completely separate set of maps and warbands for a new setting. Lutria would be fun in the jungles, or the deserts of Araby with the tomb kings.

    And honestly, as much as I love the lore, I would mindn't if they included warbands from other settings or let the different settings pvp together, because it would add more variety to the game.

    I'd even play this ruleset in a historical setting if they couldn't get the rights to anything else. maybe a colonizing the new world setting, with some native american factions, and some european settlers, search for gold in the hills.
    Fistandantilus likes this.
  10. FlaminGallahs2089 Major

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    Elven warband justification would be along the lines of they want to find the scientific and magical properties of the wyrdstone.
    I know a high elf like Teclis would probably jump on board though he doesnt fit this time off lore right?,
    Malekith would be likely to send warriors if it had the chance to increase his power.

    Lizardmen's justification would be to cleanse the world of impuristic magic. They come in to destroy the wyrdstone and skaven.

    I personally feel the four warband expansion after the game completion should consist around...

    Dwarven Treasure Hunters, Carnival of Chaos, Human Treasure Hunters (a mixture of the afoementioned ostlanders, averlanders, pirates and arabians), Norscan Raiders

    Beastmen same as greenskins, why so few coming? Though honestly would love to see them (but they may be represented in a chaos faction as hired sword)

    A historical one would be nice, honestly I think it would have to be just mercenary warbands that kill for the hell of it though.
    If you use the thrones of britania time period you could justify
    Romans, Viking, Saxons, Francks, Gauls, Northern Africans, Japanese/Chinese, Russian
    Which would add nice diversity...
  11. Trapsinger Brigadier

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    You left out the Kislevites with their trained bear.
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  12. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    I second this suggestion wholeheartedly! It seems like most players who try throwing knives are disappointed by them and quickly abandon them. If you think about it, why even bother going to all the trouble of including an actual shooting skill just for a weapon like that? Trapsinger’s suggestion would not only make throwing knives genuinely useful, they’d be a heck of a lot MORE FUN.
    Fistandantilus likes this.
  13. Cyberaddict Major

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    Well... Throwing Stars are the weapon of choice of my Skaven Warband (Hush Hush Die Die). Other than Trapsinger's Witch Hunters (Living on a Prayer) and some 5 Warlocks crazy Marienburgers (White Council), the team is close to undefeated in PVP even against twice my rating. Two days ago, at 450, I wiped out a 900 team in full plate, just by Throwing Stars (and running out of melee when opponent got there). The way I see it, people just don’t know how to properly build a team around these weapons.

    Too bad the team I’ve rolled for the League has a WS focus, instead of BS... Well, I’ll have to learn how to play Skaven in close combat! ;)
  14. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    I’d like to point out that the suggestion is for ‘throwing knives’ (i.e. throwing daggers) and not ‘throwing stars’. ‘Throwing stars’ are skaven only.

    By your own admission, you don’t have much experience beyond skaven and ‘throwing stars’. I’m sure you have plenty of innate talent however. That talent aside, the reason you’ve been successful with throwing stars is, in no small way, do to the innate abilities of skaven warriors and the stealthy mob tactics they were designed for. These are HIGHLY EFFECTIVE things regardless of weapon choice. Try giving other races ‘throwing daggers’—especially when that individual unit has poor starting initiative for its race—and I’d be willing to bet that you’ll have substantially less success and less fun.

    Clearly this is a sign from Sigmar that you need to field a throwing dagger oriented Reiklander warband. ;)
  15. Cyberaddict Major

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    Oh... i see what you mean now. For any Mercenaries Warband, Throwing Knives are indeed quite a bad choice. There will always be a better weapon for them to put in their left hand. But I doubt making them usable in melee would make them better than a Pistol, Long Rifle or Elven Bow... without creating a bigger problem elsewhere (re : Skaven throwing stars in melee). Also, I can understand why pulling a trigger is easy to do in melee. But throwing a knife or star at somebody you're in physical combat with? Maybe the solution would be to have some special knives that would have stats similar to stars, and with an Initiative bonus.
  16. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    I don’t see why it would create a problem elsewhere—especially with skaven. Throwing daggers aren’t throwing stars and would thus not be effected at all. The purpose of using throwing daggers is that the unit can remain hidden; they’re just kinda terrible. Like you said: “[t]here will always be a better weapon for them to put in their left hand.” Also, the unit is literally holding the dagger in their hand (albeit by the blade). It’s not unreasonable to think a warrior couldn’t flip the dagger with a flick of their wrist when they decide to attack and then stab with it. I’m not a highly trained soldier any means but even I can do that (takes me about a tenth of a second).

    The point of the suggestion isn’t to make them superior, it’s to make them better. If they can be used in melee in conjunction with other weapons, then we should be able to use them first without it ending our turn. Or least, it ought to work that way. That would allow a player who’s hiding the OPTION to throw a dagger and THEN attack with a melee weapon OR simply remain hidden. That would ABSOLUTELY be useful and worth using with certain builds. For example:
    * Ninja Pit Fighters
    * Low defense captains with speed and magic oriented builds
  17. Cyberaddict Major

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    Maybe, without changing Throwing Knives, Devs could create an upgrade, like Elven Bow Vs Bow? « Dual Daggers » could be held in Right Hand and have the melee stats of a good Dagger (don’t recall it’s name, but the one that has no penalty if user has Mastery). But when Left Hand equips Throwing Knives, the Dual Daggers gain +1 (+2) Attacks in close combat (to simulate the fact that you’re also fighting with the left hand), and user gets +5 Initiative (as if unarmed) and some bonuses apply to the Throwing Knives (maybe more Critical Hits).

    I think the point of not making Throwing Knives not usable in melee is to avoid Quick Shot and Knife Fighter skills be used on top of melee attacks. Pistols can be fired twice in melee with Quick Shot, but not 4 times. To keep up with Pistols/Quick Shot, I made sure to have Unarmed Masters get another extra Attacks (at +2). Also, note that Dual Dagggers will have, in the the end, the exact same stats as a Dual Pistol in melee, if wielded by an Unarmed Master.

    This Dual Dagger would not fix Throwing Knives the way you intended, but would make them viable and create a new Archetype for Mercenaries : the Knife Expert.
  18. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    Honestly, dual daggers is a whole separate thing and, incidentally, waaaaaay more work than what other people and myself have asked for. In TT, you could actually dual wield daggers if you wanted to but they still sucked. The first one was free though. I think you could even do it with throwing daggers but I can’t recall.

    Dual wielding ‘any weapon’ gave you +1 attack with the additional weapon. It was added to the total number of the unit’s attacks after all other modifiers were applied. If the warrior was armed with two different weapons, he would make a single attack with his weapon of choice and his remaining attacks with the other weapon.
  19. Shangular Major

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    Just a quick opinion on Throwing Knives - I've used them on my Undead and Merc warband not for the damage potential but the +5 Initiative. For my Undead, it pretty much guarantees that my Vampire will almost always go first with a 97 initiative plus it keeps my rating down. When I equip a Skull Hammer and Throwing Knife, the rating is 7506. When he equips the comet maul it jumps to 9,401. He can still dish out good damage with that Skull Hammer.

    For the Merc captain, I sometimes find that +5 Initiative more beneficial than an extra attack from a pistol (which really almost always does no damage against high defense opponents)
  20. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    I’ve recently been playing with a fully magic oriented undead warband. I even have a henchman named Juicy for my vamp to feed off of the first few rounds. My necromancer vampire uses a corpse crook and throwing dagger. His ballistic skill started at 45 and, thus far, the build had been great. But if he could attack after first throwing that dagger, the build would be substantially greater. Then, it would really shine.

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