Dwarf Treasure Hunters!

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Prabdeep Bazaz, Apr 23, 2020.

  1. Prabdeep Bazaz Social Media Manager

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    Dwarf-Treasure-Hunters.png

    The community have spoken, and we have listened. We have moved beyond the original 8 warbands from the tabletop game and unleashed the first of our premium warbands into Mordheim.

    These grim Dwarves only respect age, wealth and skill. It should be no surprise that these warriors have been seen in Mordheim searching for the fortune of the Wyrdstone.

    With new unique skills and armour these premium range of warriors are for the real connoisseurs of the game with the emphasis on them being thematic and fun.

    This is our first premium warband and if it is well received, we will add more in the future. Download the update now and let us know what you think!

    Download the update on Browser, Android and Apple.

    - Socials -

    Found a bug? Report it here - https://forms.gle/MXi6SAt1jfxuq9rQ6

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  2. Shangular Brigadier

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    Nice! Just bought them and will look forward to testing them out. On the surface, it looks like I'll be fielding a very shooty warband as dwarf close combat is somewhat lacking (see my comments in the New Slayer Skills thread). But chemical engineer skill combined with the sniper rifle looks promising.

    Just curious, which hired swords can they hire?
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  3. Prabdeep Bazaz Social Media Manager

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    They can hire - Freelancers, Pitfighter, Warlocks, Ogre, Halfling and Troll Slayers
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  4. Algirdas25 Major

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    So what henchmen, skill,new equ they offer?
  5. Algirdas25 Major

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    No elves in dwarf warband?
    Yay
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  6. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    I own every warband on nearly every platform but I’m not buying this.

    I’d like to be positive about them but it’s rather difficult since the burn from the previously released warband, the Possessed, still stings. Against high defense, brethren do less damage per turn AFTER possession. Had I known that beforehand, I wouldn’t have bought them. It would be much easier if troll slayers had actually been fixed by their update. But nope! They’re still ineffectual. Since their flaw is a misapplication of a core mechanic, it is also racial so that doesn’t exactly bode well for Treasure Hunters.

    I do have a good feeling about orcs though. “Wud Yoo Say?”
  7. Shangular Brigadier

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    I have every warband too on IOS version. I’ve been able to make the Possessed very competitive with the recent mutation probability fixes and beastmen. Although agree the Possessed warrior needs a little more work.

    You should definitely get the dwarves. I’ve been having a blast with my solo noble lately. Trying to keep rating low atm so only at 125 but this guy has been able to win treasure hunts. Even against Skaven lol. I still think slayers still has issues as per the other thread, but this noble works well because he can shoot with that repeater gun. So if you want to run away from me in close combat, that’s fine, I’ll just shoot you in the back like any honorable person would do. I think this warband can work because dwarves can shoot, are unstunnable, plus have a higher WS than normal. So the 3/3 isn’t as bad of a determinant as it was with the slayer.

    Plus this guy looks badass. 867A6258-9182-4E96-B5D3-9A8094517892.jpeg
  8. CzaRus Major

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    O
    Based on what you have said, are dwarves more like Reikland on drugs?
  9. Algirdas25 Major

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    yep , but a little slower
  10. Shangular Brigadier

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    Like Reiklanders, um not quite. IMO they have a different optimal play style. If I were playing Reiklanders (especially with the recent Elves addition), I would have more flexibility in tactics. Dwarf tactics seem more limited because of their lack of mobility, it's always obviously what the dwarf player is trying to do because of this.

    Dwarves vs Reiklanders Pros:

    1) Entire warband can be unstunnable
    2) Higher WS and access to Combat, Strength and Shooting trees for all dwarves (excluding hired swords) makes them versatile. I can shoot you with my repeater handgun with +10 strength and +10 to hit if you stay away. If you charge me that's fine too because I can fight.
    3) If all enemies are engaged and not shooting targets are available, dwarves can rush in an fight in close combat better due to #1 and #2 above.
    4) +15 innate defense can get a dwarf to 100 defense to ensure he won't be killed by missile onslaught.

    Dwarves vs Reiklander Cons:
    1) Obviously slower so tactically is more difficult to position correctly
    2) Lack a capable fighter who can use the Flight spell (yes, I know there are people who field warlocks and believe that the sword spell makes them great fighters. But the only reason that is the case is because the sword spell is under-valued rating wise in the early game. Mid to late game (2000+, warlocks become useless for fighting purposes because the sword spell doesn't have any defense reduction modifiers, but still can be helpful for treasure hunt and shard collecting purposes). Yes, I've tested this by smashing warlock warbands in pvp with my mid-level vampire (2,500 rating). When a warlock armed with sword spell charges my vampire, he does mostly 0 or 1 damage. But getting back to this point, a mercenary wizard captain is one of the best single warriors in the game, able to have excellent mobility and fighting capability. One on one, if equipped correctly, he should be able to beat any dwarf.
    3) Lack of access to Elf Rangers. Yes, dwarves can shoot, but not as well as elves armed with sniper rifles. Plus with the Flight spell, high initiative and 5/5 movement, they can get into tactical sniping positions quickly which dwarf warbands lack.
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  11. Arnold Private

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    The dwarfs are well done! It is fun to play them.
    That is good, because i was really fucked up from this game after the chaos warband.
    Please change dark pact.
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  12. CodedWord Private

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    I might be contrarian here, but the Dwarf Treasure Hunters feel a tad underwhelming - at least starting out... It feels like I keep getting matched against warbands that are either significantly lower rating (where I wreck them) or that have a power level much higher than their rating would suggest. I don't see how 3 Dwarfs at level 2-4 should be trying to fight 5-8 other models with an Ogre or Demon big unit that also have small fighters with 2+ attacks... that implies more leveling and more invested gold than my starting band of drinking buddies.

    To list some of my concerns:
    • Starting stats don't particularly make Dwarfs any tougher or stronger. With the way combat mechanics work, WS differences mean very little and toughness doesn't stop ranged or melee damage from practically oneshotting a new Dwarf. This is a real problem against most other warbands because I can go up against a 100-200 rating team with my 3 Dwarfs at level 2 and have to wade through 5+ combatants all armed with weapons and often having some combat monster with 2+ attacks and heavy armor. Either the rating system is borked or Dwarfs are being rated too highly at their start. While I know other warbands have a longer path to get some of the skills like extra attacks and fear due to lower stats - the value of extra attacks alone makes a starting Dwarf warband feel underpowered against a similarly rated Skaven, Undead (dear god vampires just walk through me), and even Possessed warband. The value of an Ogre-sized fighter also means I should never see them at such a low rating imo.
    • One skill to make them resistant to stuns, then a second to make them immune. At least with the initiative skills each one remained useful after you got stun immunity... can we change the path to require the "Extra Tough" skill as the prerequisite for "Thick Skull" and drop the "Hard to Kill" skill? Perhaps it's asking for too much, but if this is a "premium" warband and they're being rated higher against other warbands of higher strength, then perhaps their skill paths being easier is part of the benefit? I know having 40WS off the bat on some hires means faster second attack skill and immediate access to other skills that usually take many levels to get into.
    • Not having access to an archer at hire is a bit odd - Human warbands have a differentiated fighter/archer archetype unit... While Dwarfs don't necessarily need that, giving them crossbow skill base might help open up more build options earlier on instead of having to smack things with a mace for a few levels before you can be a ranged fighter.
    • I hadn't run into visibility problems until Dwarfs though - having such low initiative means they can't see enemies until literally on top of them. Having 2h weapons affect visibility sight range is dumb and likely needs a change. Equally - lanterns (a staple Dwarfish accessory) should help much more for their sight range than it seems to (still based on initiative, which can be '0' in some cases). That initiative range means so much in the gameplay realm since hiding is so powerful to get double attacks in a round... it also means Dwarfs can't hide (not necessarily anti-thematic) and it puts them on the backfoot against even similarly rated warbands. Perhaps add some initiative skills only for Dwarfs that give them that extra lantern bonus or seeing the hidden... they hunt treasure in dark caverns - they can't be that sightless.
    • Movement speed, while so Dwarfy, is a HUGE impairment for objective based games. If Dwarfs can't get to the objective fast, then we have fewer turns to do anything effectively and combined with already feeling like they're behind the power curve starting out, it can be hard to win games that require you to take and hold (or find treasure especially). Instead of making them faster, allowing them to have a hint towards treasure location (they're treasure hunters after all) or allowing them to "hustle" on the first turn for movement might help it not feel like such a slog just to play the game as it was meant to be played. In tabletop Mordheim, you could select deployment at the very least so you could try to optimally start on the board towards your objective, but without player deployment choices - Dwarfs can be stuck walking for an extra turn or two before they can even engage on the objective... leaving 2 turns less to actually try to take it - which is already a challenge due to the above visibility issues (that tabletop didn't have).
    Other than those points, I love em - the appearance is perfect (Beards look great!) and they *feel* fine until they come up against a warband that is clearly overpowered for the supposed rating level I'm seeing them at.

    Let me say that I love the game - Supported it on Android when it was still young and only had the human warbands. Bought Skaven and Undead on Android. Moved to IOS, bought warbands again. This is a weird post to be my first ever comment on this forum but Dwarfs are one of my favorites and I want the game to be the best it can be.
  13. Erkebrand Major

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    It could be good to add for every character a minimum range of sight, I think it was not in mind to have people with the initiative that low, i mean and even understanding how spotting enemies works, to add something like X squares of sight for if your initiative is below that range of sight. Many times with "hidden in the shadows" enemy characters are unable to spot my guys being next to them. This of course is in early game before people invest on initiative.

    I still don't play with a dwarven band but they should have some kind of minimum range of sight if there is so much people telling about their blindness. Maybe adding range of sight to scooped rifles? To make a skill for them to be able to smell items in the ground from distance also sounds nice, with this kind of handicaps it could make them more viable.

    And I have a question now, how far can a dwarven guy spot enemies in the open? And into cover?

    PS: a mining helmet... Adding spotting range like eagle eyes, but not initiative, initiative is bad xD xD
  14. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    After being persuaded to give these little guys a chance, it would be remiss of me to not say something now. For reasons I won't discuss here, the mobile version of Treasure Hunters is markedly different from table top. And the result...is honestly pretty fun.

    While deliberately keeping their rating low, I’ve managed to level my warband of 5 dwarves, 1 halfling, and 2 ogres to a rating of 1311. Along the way, I’ve made some observations that should prove useful here:

    1. Scouts—We don’t need 8 units with high initiative to see and shoot targets on the opposite side of the map; we just need one. More than any other warband, Treasure Hunters need a hired sword with high initiative and speed skills to act as their scout. That leaves us with two options: pit fighters and halfling scouts. Both will work but pit fights must be leveled into the role to do it well while halflings were made for it.
    2. Progression—Dwarves themselves are very versatile and can be optimized early on for either ranged or close combat. With that said, starting with crossbows and focusing on shooting skills first will likely yield the easiest playthrough for the most people. There's nothing wrong with melee and, in fact, it's the build I prefer. But ranged offers a gentler introduction to the shortcomings of dwarves while remaining extreemly viable. They will be frequently charged in the beginning but that will significantly decrease as they level. It will fall even further to nearly zero if either ogres or pit fighters are added to the roster.
    3. Tanks—For melee focused warbands, a shield bearing dwarf with maxed out defense is all you'll ever need. The faster you can get to the holy land (i.e. 100 defense), the happier you will be. Ranged warbands are a bit different. Because dwarves are so slow, most people will also find that they still need 2 to 3 tanks in front as mobile shields to soak up missile damage. While leveling two or more dwarves or pit fighters into this role is perfectly feasible, ogres were made for it and their superior range helps make many mission types far more enjoyable.
    4. Bugs—the Chemical Engineer skill probably doesn't work. After testing across 18 matches, the difference in damage was completely negligible. The Mechanical Engineer skill is also bugged but, thankfully, the bonus is still applied; it just fails to update the displayed ballistic skill in camp.
    IMG_6407.jpeg
  15. CodedWord Private

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    Should we really force one warband to hire an elite fighter just for sight? Sight needs to be unlinked from initiative or given a baseline that can't be lowered for having low Init...

    I think this is fair - the builds available early on make Dwarfs tough and slow and 1h/shield seems to be the most reliable and durable build - but I'm still running into warbands twice my size at the same rating and they're not underleveled so I feel like defense isn't quite sufficient.

    I think they have a bit too high WS starting off and the trade I think should be giving them the crossbow skill baseline to you can start off as a ranged warband (without needing to first fight as melee to get a level or two). Having some new hires with WS 40+ is a bit extreme... but it doesn't make them combat monsters either...

    Good to know before I develop into those. I feel like having these ranged skills needs a melee counterpart like Ironbreaker or Slayer type skills.
  16. Blackstaff Corporal

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    I've played tabletop for years, and Treasure Hunters have always been one of my favorites in that setting. In my humble opinion, this mobile rendition of them is nothing short of fantastic.

    As others have mentioned, the mobile warband has some significant differences, but my general sense of these ones is much the same. Similar tactics, strengths, and weaknesses. The developers did a great job of depicting them.

    They're not for everyone. In my view dwarves are as a rule disciplined soldiers who best use cover and defensive formations. They are not fast, though equipping initiative enhancing items (particularly on the shooters) can mitigate low initiative to a degree. Dwarves have staying power also, and given their high leadership, they can stay in it and win long after most bands have routed.

    I'm having a great time with mine, and highly recommend them!
  17. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    I know why dwarves can't see.

    Their moms never showed them how to wear hats!


    IMG_6408 2.jpeg
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  18. Shangular Brigadier

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    But the fact remains, Ogres are not Dwarves. This is like telling a dwarf that ithlimar is a proper material over gromil. Any dwarf knows that only a dwarf can be a proper tank. But actually, dwarves fit this role better because

    1) having 100 - 115 defense, they are better missile absorbers
    2) dwarves are immune to stun, once an ogre gets stunned it sucks
    3) for me this is key: coordination with the warband. Ogres move 6/6 which can be good for certain things like grabbing shards or treasure chest, but the rest of your dwarves only move 3/3. So it doesn't make much sense to have a tank run out too far ahead of the group.
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  19. Rexall Private

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    Ya Ogres are a waste of a spot as Treasure Hunters, dwarfs all the way baby

    PS: @Shangular you still solo as the dwarf? If so how long you doing it for? To farm how much gold? And what's the stats so far?
  20. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    You are correct, sir! If you look at the time stamp of that post, I wrote it after midnight. For a guy who typically wakes up at 5 AM, that's pretty late for me! I amended it for clarity.

    Originally, I was thinking of tanking in terms of ranged dwarven warbands since that's the type I really feel is best for less experienced players to start with. Dwarfs are amazing tanks but, if 4 to 5 of them are optimized for ranged combat, life is honestly just easier with 2 to 3 ogres than it is with more dwarves.

    In melee focused warbands, however, ogres seem relatively superfluous to me. They do make great endgame replacement options for warlocks though. Nevertheless, once they've helped me purchase all the gear I need, I’m still going to replace the warlocks in my second dwarf warband with more shield bearing dwarves.


    The two warlocks below are the only type dwarfs truly prize. Financial wizards! :D

    warband_no_2.jpeg
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