Elf Rangers for Hire!

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Ewan Lamont, Feb 27, 2020.

  1. Trapsinger Brigadier

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    Actually that's a good point, about them not being able to change their armour.

    I assumed that they could change their armor because when you click on their armour on the equipment page, it shows all of the other armour available to everyone else in the warband. Normally if you see if on the equip page you can wear it, but rangers can't. Why are they different? And why is it only for the armour? Were they meant to be able to wear it and the button is missing/bugged? Or are they meant to not be able to see it, and the flags are wrong? Seems like a bug either way.
    studer1972 and Shangular like this.
  2. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    So I've been playing a warband consisting of one human and four elves extensively and I've come to some conclusions regarding their power and it isn't all roses. The good news is that, given a small learning curve, anything with initiative greater than or equal to an elf can kill it easily enough in PVP or against the AI. When the elves have the initiative advantage (which will be the norm) they still won't be much of a threat in single player if and only if the AI doesn't delay their turns.

    In PVP however, where their turns will be delayed unless the elf player makes a mistake, the answer (in part) depends on the following: assuming an elf has no melee weapon equipped, can a Reiklander with maxed initiative (including gear) pull a maxed speed skills elf (with no gear) out of sneak when in near base contact? If the answer is yes, then the rest is fine tuning which I will largely leave to others. If the answer is no, then what we actually have is a significant problem.
  3. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    I was finally able to answer the above question and, fortunately, the answer is yes. A generic run of the mill Reiklander with just a lantern and sufficient investment in initiative can easily expose an elf. Elves have great starting stats at level one and a big head start on initiative compared to many units. It's really those two truths, far more than anything else, that can make them feel overpowered in the beginning. That feeling does go away by higher levels where maxed initiative and gromril become increasingly common. Since they start with a bow, taking away black powder would do nothing for their early game but it would change later levels from fun to disappointing.
  4. Shangular Brigadier

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    If someone were to take the time to level up 4 Elf Rangers to max out the skills, this could be a very OP warband. People focus on their high BS which is good. But don't forget they also have a high WS, which you can max to 75. Those who know the mechanics of the mobile game know that WS is the key to doing damage. Now arm these guys with a skull hammer to limit opponent's defenses to 20, give them the Flight spell, and you'll have a warband of 5 guys (4 elves plus a captain) that can shoot and easily hit and run in close combat (with 4 attacks each) as well. Forgot ogres, you can have these guys attack an ogre, than fly up a building so the ogre can't attack back.

    You can have them all drink crimson shade to bump up their str if need be or if you want to invest the time, get them the sword spell for a 95 WS and 5 attacks. The 95 WS is actually a better defense than armor itself.

    If only I had the time to build up such a warband....
  5. Erkebrand Major

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    Flight spell don't work half of the times on them because of the armor, the magic bow has mostly same success rate, and allows you to shoot 6 times combined with the elven bow and quick shoot, the flame sword gets a very low cast chance, but if it's summoned it will last for long with that leadership.

    Something to consider is their skill to reroll, combined with what you have said it's hard to beat them in melee, they repeat when they hit or when they are under attack, and can get a reasonable parry to help.

    I'm enjoying a lot with them, but having 4 of them seems OP even to me, and I don't want to say this, but maybe having a limit of 1 or 2 per band like other characters like vampires or priests could be appropriate. I personally think this should be a rule for almost any hired sword.

    Does any of you have equipped them with guns or crossbows? They have the skill tree, but can they equip those items?
  6. CzaRus Major

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    Yes my friend, they can indeed equip any of those items. Devs pls nerf
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  7. Cyberaddict Major

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    How many Elf can a Warband hire? I got one today, my 3rd Hired Sword. Should I reserve the 4th and final slot for another Elf, or a 3rd Warlock? The other units in my Warband (Marienburg) are Captain, two Snipers and one junior Henchman (a filler, that I’ll dismiss as soon as I get my 4th Hired Sword). My Captain currently wields sword and pistol, but I’ll make him a sniper too when I’m done with his magical training.
  8. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    You should be able to add a second one just fine. The limit is your warband’s maximum number of available slots for hired swords.
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  9. Cyberaddict Major

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    Is it normal that I cannot remove Ithilmar armour from my Elf Ranger? I wanted him bare chest, to enhance spellcasting... It seems the only thing I can do is swap Ithilmar for Full Plate. :(
  10. CzaRus Major

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    Elves OP, Devs pls remove magic from elves.
  11. Cyberaddict Major

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    Well, they can't wear robes, they *have* to wear Ithilmar armour, and they can't learn the skills Sorcery or Warrior Wizard. This means they have -45% chance to cast spells, compared to Warlocks (or a very dedicated Captain). A typical Elf will cast Flight of Zimmerman at 25%. At the very best, reaching level 4 in that spell (3 precious skill slots) and with the help of a staff (350+ gold), they'll get to 65%... which is quite bad, IMHO.

    I was hyped on the Elf, and deviated from my plan of making an all Warlocks group (+ Captain and some snipers for support). I replaced two Warlocks with two Elves, and I'm quite disappointed. They're really not good spellcasters. I should have just focused on the other skills, and completely ignore their magic abilities.

    They don't need to be nerfed.
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  12. Erkebrand Major

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    They don't need magic to be OP, and 55% cast chance of flight or silver arrows it's enough to be disgusting. They have lower chance than warlocks, but they wear ithilmar (useful against hammers) can equip hammers or any kind of weapon with an amazing WS and rerolls. For hitting and for defending.

    for me the worst point on them is the possibility of carrying guns. Their high BS should be for bows, but with a scooped rifle you get 48 squares (ignoring cover). If only they could shoot with their strength with bows, with a skill similar to what happens with trowing stars or knifes taking the owner strength, they could be competent for late with a bow, and of course the best archers in game as they should be. Any guy actually hiring a elven ranger have in mind to give him a scooped rifle, it's legal, it's possible, so let's go.

    Magic and guns need to be removed
    Specific bow skills need to be added (+10S, +1 shoot when using bows...)
    CzaRus likes this.
  13. Enajien Major

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    I firmly believe if they released them with no magic and no guns we all would be whining about another useless hired sword and trying to come up with ways to buff them, including trying to create some kind of elf magic list for them or skills to make their bows be like guns.
  14. CzaRus Major

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    First off - no f-ing way. Their stats are WAY higher than they should be = Initiative at 55-65 being THE fastest model in game, with insane BS and with Starter kit, which half of the hired swords don't have. Better starting hired sword than ogre - adn with gear he needs. Guns are supreme, magic is an overkill, and me and some others whined for elf being too OP.
    There are only few useless hired swords, those are freelancers, mostly troll slayers and (to some degree) pit fighters, though pit fighters are not terrible. They should have magic removed, it doesnt fit their role. End sentence.
    About buffing things - the only thing that I recall getting buffed over our whining to LG was the dwarf troll slayer. Poor freelancer still untouched, bothered by none.
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  15. Enajien Major

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    If they were released with no magic, I agree with you. They would still be a good hired sword. My comment was about losing both magic and guns. Even with their high I and BS with only bows they wouldn't be useful late game. It would be the possessed / ghoul problem we all complain about for end game.
  16. Cyberaddict Major

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    IMHO, elves are perfect the way they are. People hate perfection, and that’s why they are hated by all the other races in th Old World. They should be fast, agile, deadly, magical... perfect. But they should be near extinction, too. Just limit elves to 1 per Warband, like Vampires and Priests, and voilà. The rest of the stats are fine. I have no quarrel with elves carrying guns. It’s their keen eyesight that make them good with bows, not a spiritual bond with that kind of weapon in particular. After having played other fantasy games with elves carrying technology, cyberware, or even netrunning, I have absolutely no objection with them using something like a gun. They’ll take it, and instinctively know how to use it. Because, remember, elves are perfect... and hated... but should be rare and near extinction. LG did a good job on the perfectly hated part. It’s just the rare part that needs to be addressed.
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  17. Shangular Brigadier

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    Originally when elves first came out, I agreed that magic and blackpowder didn't make sense because my comparison point was the TT version. I understand that the mobile will always have some differences due to the technicalities of how the game plays on mobile. With that said, I'm okay with the current elves because:

    1) When they were first out, I didn't realize that you couldn't replace their ithilmar armor with wizard robes. Thus the 53% chance to cast flight does nullify the effectiveness which is a good thing.
    2) Although the blackpowder weapon doesn't make sense lorewise, I would agree that they should then have a skill that makes them better at using elf bows. However, as someone mentioned on a separate thread, programming wise may be easier with just letting them use rifles.
    3) I have 3 elves in my Middenheimers which I worked to level up. Tbh, when facing warbands 6000+, they aren't as OP although they are formidable but only when levelled up. For example an elf with a sniper rifle with only 60 BS is really nothing to write home about. But once you spend the time to level them up and they get 85 BS combined with the other shooting skills they an awesome shooter. Just like Ogres. Yes they can be deadly but only when all are maxed up. When you get to that point where either an elf or ogre is maxed levelled, you'll most likely be facing max levelled opponents too, so it evens out.

    Anyways, I'll say my pitch again that I think will tremendously help with re-balancing: Limit Hired Swords to just one per type like the TT game :) Probably won't happen but hey
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  18. Erkebrand Major

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    It's not about if they can or not, they don't use guns in the lore, this is an adaptation we all love. A bow should shoot faster than a gun, that's why elves don't use fireguns, less power but much faster. It has sense for me. I'm agree that other mercenaries need some kind of buff.

    Bows will never become like guns if they have some skill to give bows more strength or shoots, they will have lower range, so impact penalty compensating their high BS. If they get a long rifle with 80 BS and ignoring cover will be terrible.

    I'm using 4 elves with long bows, I know what I'm speaking about, they are reliable and hard to kill in melee, but they don't deliver much ranged damage against armoured guys.

    "Expert Archer: additional shoot when using bows. Requirements: ballistic skill 75". As simple as this, and guns away.

    I'm not going to try again to change the opinion of anybody else about magic, I think they just don't need it to be reliable, that's all. Many warlocks went to mordheim to make some money, and see how elven guys used magic. Now warlocks hate elves, as the rest of the non elves xD.
  19. studer1972 Corporal

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    Elf rangers die as easily as Ogres vs my Vampire SuperCorpse (formerly the Revenant Horton Hate). They haven't seemed OP either on my squad or against it. Now, a full warband of shooters armed with missile weapons will ruin anyone's day if the mission is a take and hold ground mission. Any kind of shooty warband is OP in those missions.

    -In TT, the Halfling Scout had the highest I and a BS equal to our pointy eared chums. Elf should be I/BS 4 (35-45).
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  20. studer1972 Corporal

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    On further experience and reflection, them scrawny gits are pretty deadly with their rerolls.

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