Elf Rangers with rifles?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Perl Fisher, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. Perl Fisher Private

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    Spell casters, high beginning stats, nice weightless armour, the whole package! I understand, why Elf Rangers are so expensive.
    But allowing them access to firearms are maybe a bit over the top (and non-canon?). Maybe they should be nerfed to just elf bows?
    Played against another player that had a pair of killer elf snipers with Hochland Rifles:
    Because they were also spellcasters, they could each fire two Hochland Sniper shots every turn AND move 12 squares with Flight of Zimmeran OR get off 3-5 more shots with Silver Arrows of Arha.
    So when you finally closed in on them through a dense hail of bullets and magic arrows, they would just fly out of reach (few warriors can run 12+ squares) AND continue shooting at you in the same round.
    How to deal with that?
    CzaRus likes this.
  2. CzaRus Major

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    There is no counter to it. NONE. I was pin-pointing about insane elf stats and abilities the day they came out. Only way to do something is magic of your own (possessed and undead), or leadership race (who gives up first after 12 rounds of waiting), but generally speaking elves are OP pls nerf. But nobody listens to our barking. They should get their magic removed and stats nerfed. Even ogres, super strong creatures only have +10 starting S stat. Dwarves only +10 WS . But elves are buffed to the skies and beyond, being faster than vampires, being amazing in melee, best unit at range, longest distance moving unit in the game, having very high leadership and no S debuff, literary THE BEST UNIT IN THE GAME, YOURS FOR 900 GOLD ONLY, starter kit with armour and bow included.
  3. Whiskeyjack Private

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    It is possible to have a wizard-leader and do pretty much the same thing. I would know, seeing as how I have one capable of zooming into point-blank range and unloading six shots from a repeater handgun before escaping with impunity (assuming he has initiative).
    Elf Rangers are still massively overpowered though. My own ranger dishes out up to 7 shots at 85BS every turn (between a repeater handgun and silver arrows), re-rolling every attack. The re-roll every skill check (even defense rolls) thing is completely broken and barely nudged the ranger's rating up at all. My ranger regularly gets multiple XP from killing things that literally have no chance of harming him. The Ithilmar isn't really an advantage, seeing as it drops Flight of Zimmerman to at most a 65% cast chance, and a 35% chance of getting murdered in melee isn't good enough to depend on. Elf Rangers, I think, are a fairly hideous intersection of a few problems:
    -ranged being better than melee in general (for it's rating)
    -magic being way too strong for its rating
    -Flight of Zimmerman in particular being spectactularly overpowered
    -rating not reflecting the value of high movement, WS and BS properly
    -the lack of a proper counter to late-game range: anything other than full cover is useless, sneaking is impossible
  4. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    An eight man warband of generic Reiklanders can do it if they each have maxed initiative, perception, a lantern, and a ranged weapon. Skaven and vampires can also deal with them and I just did it a day or two ago using the Possessed. In the latter case, I maxed out the speed skills of all units early and took advantage of cover. On maps with no cover, melee characters without speed skills would be absolutely helpless though.
  5. CzaRus Major

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    Was it PVP or PVE? Maxed out initiative character can have up to 85 Initiative, but will be of no real use in combat - start 35, maxed out 65, ithilmar sword 75, halfling mask 5 and throwing knives 5. Since Skaven are probably the strongest warband, no suprice there, since they already start with good Initiative. You could argue that you can just overshoot those elves, but there is still 3-4 non-elf enemies that will make you suffer some other way. And try catching up to them. Elves are faster (max 115 Initiative with previously mentioned items), movement up to 24 squares (6 move + 6 spell ignoring vertical level), max 90 BS if using thunderer hat, rerolling everything, max WS 75 - more than a reik sniper with pit fighter skill, no Strenght penalty. Try to beat it as a humie faction PVP without elves in it. GOOD LUCK
  6. Whiskeyjack Private

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    I could say that my Elf Ranger outperforms any two of my muggle Reiklanders easily, but that would be anecdotal.
    To compare a generic Reiklander with an Elf Ranger, ignoring melee:
    -Elf Rangers have max 85BS, far better than Reiklanders' max 65BS.
    -Elf Rangers re-roll every attack and defense roll (boosting a 50% chance of hitting to a 75% one).
    -Elf Rangers get 50% magic resistance.
    -Reiklanders get access to Strength skills (that Unstoppable Charge skill will come in handy for my sniper).
    -Elf Rangers have access to magic.
    -Elves have 2 more movement than Reiklanders (after taking +1 Movement, which Reiklanders can't get).
    -Elf Rangers have access to Initiative skills (Ambush, Dodge, Immune to Stun, etc.), Reiklanders do not. Elf Rangers also get to put an extra point in Perception.
    -Elf Rangers look stupid with the Burgher hat.

    It's a close call, but I think the Elves just about manage to be completely and overwhelmingly superior to the Reiklanders in every way. It's difficult to compare ratings, because how much rating a piece gives is hidden for some reason, but the Elf seems to pay twice as much rating for a ranged weapon as my Reiklanders' do. However, that's only ~35 rating in the difference for a repeater handgun and the Elf Ranger could probably obliterate any two repeater handgun wielding Reiklanders.

    The Rangers remind me of the 'climbing-falling-stones elves' from the Hobbit films, and suffice to say anything that reminds me of the Hobbit films is not a good thing.

    With regards to Initiative, not carrying a right hand weapon gives +5 Initiative.

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