Explanation of combat mechanic please

Speigas

Private
Can we get explanation of combat mechanic? How strength affects damage? How defense value works?

I would be beneficial to understand such background, so we can test it, find abnormalities and suggest something.

Thanks,
 

morjax

YouTuber & Moderator
Staff member
Can we get explanation of combat mechanic? How strength affects damage? How defense value works?

I would be beneficial to understand such background, so we can test it, find abnormalities and suggest something.

Thanks,

I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure this is how each works:

  • Weapon Skill: Determines your chance to hit, as well as opens up various weapon and attack-based skills
  • Strength: Determines how hard you hit (hence 2-handed weapons that have the +10 or +15 to strength). This also allows you to take some two-handed and toughness-based skills
  • Defense: I'm less sure on this, but I believe that the enemy's defense is subtracted from your strength to determine how hard the hit is. If you have 40 strength and the enemy has 20 armor, there's a chance their armor will deflect some of that hit. Some weapons cap enemy armor (most notably hammers/maces with the "Max enemy defence +XX" text)
  • Parry is a separate roll from the others. If the attack er lands the hit, there's an X chance to negate the attack, where X is your parry roll.
Devs: Please correct me where I'm off base (especially for defense! How does that work?).
 

Overwatch

Community Manager
Staff member
Here's a more detailed explanation of how the combat mechanic works, and a bit of info on the stats:

Chance to hit (Melee):
50+ (Attackers Weapons Skill – Defenders Weapon Skill) = percentage value

Calculations for working out how defence affects your chance to hit:
100 – Whatever your opponents defence is, multiply this figure by 0.01, then multiply by whatever your hit chance is.

An example of these calculations:
If for example my unit had a weapon skill of 32 and my opponent had a weapon skill of 40, the percentage value would be 42%.
50+ (32-40) = 42%

Let’s then say my opponent has a defence of 13. In order to work out defence as a percentage:
100 – 13 = 87%

The adjusted chance to hit would then be:
42* (87*0.01) = 36.54%


Chance to hit (Ranged):
50+(Attackers ballistic skill - modifiers)

Ranged Modifiers:
Weapon Accuracy
Cover Bonus
Target Moved / Target Ran
Shooter Moved


Information about stats:
Strength: Is used to calculate how much damage you can potentially inflict (Strength/10)

Defence: Reduces the chance of being hit

Critical chance: The percentage chance of doubling damage

Parry: The chance of negating up to 2 hits
 

morjax

YouTuber & Moderator
Staff member
Glad you find it useful!! Happy to help ;)

Now my gears are turning about max melee resistance...

Max Armor: sword with Votive shield gives +15 def, Gromril armor +40 def, mask helm +9 def: 10% parry, 64 Armor

With Parry: sword and buckler gives a 20% chance to parry, Gromril armor and Mask helm give Defence +40 and 9, respectively: 20% parry, 49 armor

In-betweener: Sword and comet shield gives +15% parry, +9 def, gromril and mask give +49: 15% parry, 58 Armor.

Now to think about which one gives the most benefit (armor vs parry). #GearsTurning

edit: of course, there's also to consider that hammers/maces can limit def, but I do't think there's any way to negate enemy parry...
 

Overwatch

Community Manager
Staff member
Now my gears are turning about max melee resistance...

Max Armor: sword with Votive shield gives +15 def, Gromril armor +40 def, mask helm +9 def: 10% parry, 64 Armor

With Parry: sword and buckler gives a 20% chance to parry, Gromril armor and Mask helm give Defence +40 and 9, respectively: 20% parry, 49 armor

In-betweener: Sword and comet shield gives +15% parry, +9 def, gromril and mask give +49: 15% parry, 58 Armor.

Now to think about which one gives the most benefit (armor vs parry). #GearsTurning

edit: of course, there's also to consider that hammers/maces can limit def, but I do't think there's any way to negate enemy parry...
Watch out every one!

If you see a Warband full of juggernauts now you know who it is...

Interesting stuff though, the possibilities!! :cool:
 

Adam Smith

Lead Software Developer
Staff member
Now my gears are turning about max melee resistance...

Max Armor: sword with Votive shield gives +15 def, Gromril armor +40 def, mask helm +9 def: 10% parry, 64 Armor

With Parry: sword and buckler gives a 20% chance to parry, Gromril armor and Mask helm give Defence +40 and 9, respectively: 20% parry, 49 armor

In-betweener: Sword and comet shield gives +15% parry, +9 def, gromril and mask give +49: 15% parry, 58 Armor.

Now to think about which one gives the most benefit (armor vs parry). #GearsTurning

edit: of course, there's also to consider that hammers/maces can limit def, but I do't think there's any way to negate enemy parry...

Just to point out, with the first build, if you were up against someone with the exact same weapon skill they would get an 18% hit chance against you... Definitely time for hammers!
 

Speigas

Private
Strength: Is used to calculate how much damage you can potentially inflict (Strength/10)

If above is correct... then max non critical damage of bows should be 3. Which is not true. I saw multiple times when longbow is able to score 4+ non critical damage.

Also +5 strength on certain weapons are useful only if they allow trooper to reach/exceed 10 strength interval (20-30-40 and so on). So its useless for trooper with strength value of say 30-34, which is sad...
 

Adam Smith

Lead Software Developer
Staff member
It neither rounds down or rounds up...

What it does is treats the strength / 10 as a whole number (retaining the decimal part however)

So Strength 32 gives you damage of 3.

But! The decimal part is turned into a percentage chance of increasing the damage by one.
E.g. 32 / 10 = 3.2
0.2 * 100 = 20
20% chance of increasing damage by one.

This way the small increases in Strength do still count for something, steadily improving your chance of scoring more damage the closer you get to a whole number.

So following Speigas' example of +5 strength on certain weapons, that would give the example above with a 70% chance of rolling 4 hits instead of 3.

Hope this helps!
 

Adam Smith

Lead Software Developer
Staff member
On the point of Long Bows causing 4+ non critical damage, that as far as I'm aware isn't possible. Did these hits cause an out if action result? Because we don't display whether the hit was a critical (which in that case it must have been to get higher than the base 3)
 

Speigas

Private
Yep that might be it. All those longbow 4+ non crits usually were final hits. So it explains this occurrence.

As of +5 str, its good to know that everything helps.
 

Lorka

Corporal
Here's a more detailed explanation of how the combat mechanic works, and a bit of info on the stats:

Chance to hit (Melee):
50+ (Attackers Weapons Skill – Defenders Weapon Skill) = percentage value
This is fine, compared to Mordheim where you have weapon skills between 1-10 and you rolled a d6 to hit. If you had higher than opponent you hit on 3+, else you hit on 4+ unless you opponent had more than twice your WS then you hit on 5+.

Calculations for working out how defence affects your chance to hit:
100 – Whatever your opponents defence is, multiply this figure by 0.01, then multiply by whatever your hit chance is.

An example of these calculations:
If for example my unit had a weapon skill of 32 and my opponent had a weapon skill of 40, the percentage value would be 42%.
50+ (32-40) = 42%

Let’s then say my opponent has a defence of 13. In order to work out defence as a percentage:
100 – 13 = 87%

The adjusted chance to hit would then be:
42* (87*0.01) = 36.54%
Now this seems to be quite a nerf of what in Mordheim used to be quite bad armour to begin with. In Mordheim armour give you a save to not get wounded at all. Why did you want armour to modify to hit instead of to wound? Would make more sense to me that it reduced strength somehow.

Chance to hit (Ranged):
50+(Attackers ballistic skill - modifiers)

Ranged Modifiers:
Weapon Accuracy
Cover Bonus
Target Moved / Target Ran
Shooter Moved
This seems to make BS much better than it is in Mordheim. In Mordheim you hit on a 4+ with a BS of 3, 3+ with BS 4 etc and 5+ with BS 2 etc. This got modified with -1 for shooter moving, -1 for cover, -1 for long range. This also means the standard BS 3 Marksman cannot hit a target in cover in long range while moving, since you needed to roll a 7+ on a d6.

Now I assume this is balanced with all the modifiers you have added.

Parry: The chance of negating up to 2 hits
Can you parry missile damage? Is this why I sometimes see hits for zero damage?
 

morjax

YouTuber & Moderator
Staff member
This also means the standard BS 3 Marksman cannot hit a target in cover in long range while moving, since you needed to roll a 7+ on a d6.

We always played that as a 6 is a guaranteed hit, and a 1 is a guaranteed miss, so there's always a chance at hitting so long as you're successfully in range. The enemy would get a free cover save, iirc? This of course led to more attacks being always the best way (more units with daggers vs less units with more gear; skaven with the broken, broken double shot slings; etc.).
 

Lorka

Corporal
Mordheim by RAW and most way people play 1 is always a failure.
A common house rule you could use the rule from Necromunda where 7 = first roll 6 then roll 4+ and 8 is first a 6, then 5+ etc.
The problem is Mordheim was balanced around sometimes its a miss, or else you would be facing 20 Skavens using slings at short range that is 40 sling shot, if a 6 is always a hit, you will be rolling for rout next turn :)
 

Sierra19

Corporal
Now my gears are turning about max melee resistance...

Max Armor: sword with Votive shield gives +15 def, Gromril armor +40 def, mask helm +9 def: 10% parry, 64 Armor

With Parry: sword and buckler gives a 20% chance to parry, Gromril armor and Mask helm give Defence +40 and 9, respectively: 20% parry, 49 armor

In the table top game, strength could overcome parry. If an attacker is strong enough, they would essentially bypass your parry to hit and deal damage. I'm not sure if this game has a similar mechanic.

In-betweener: Sword and comet shield gives +15% parry, +9 def, gromril and mask give +49: 15% parry, 58 Armor.

Now to think about which one gives the most benefit (armor vs parry). #GearsTurning

edit: of course, there's also to consider that hammers/maces can limit def, but I do't think there's any way to negate enemy parry...
 
Here's a more detailed explanation of how the combat mechanic works, and a bit of info on the stats:

Chance to hit (Melee):
50+ (Attackers Weapons Skill – Defenders Weapon Skill) = percentage value

Calculations for working out how defence affects your chance to hit:
100 – Whatever your opponents defence is, multiply this figure by 0.01, then multiply by whatever your hit chance is.
I'd really like for this information to be on the app somewhere, I think it's really useful to know.
 
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