Fate or Adverts to Avoid injury or Death

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Auretious Taak, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. Auretious Taak Corporal

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    Before the 2nd last update the only way people could heal injuries was with fate, the rest of us not using it sucked it up. I had a marksman with 6 injuries including 3 nervous conditions making him baseline -2 initiative. He Oonly had negative injuries and that was that, he was very solidly experienced so was worth keeping around. But it was like the tabletop game, injuries happen. Yous ucked it up. If the advertising was placed elsewhere, say something to dow ith the shop or hiring new warriors, nothing game changing as a whole but still te,mpting to do, then that woudl solve the issue here and retain ads in the game.

    Honestly, fate should only be used to save a warrior from death and when they get revived they keep all their injuries to that point, rather then having them all healed.
    Cabernicola likes this.
  2. Keovar Corporal

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    I'm good with ads being left for those without fate points. It might be nice to be able to donate gold at the temple to be given a 'vision' (watch an ad) to actively earn fate points, though. Maybe it would need to be limited in how often it were possible, or maybe the gold cost would limit it well enough. I'd prefer the gold cost to be lower and a limit of maybe 1 fate vision per 8 hours.

    I'm also on the side of "literally" meaning "actually", and not decaying into yet another intensifier which will lose its flavor and be replaced in a year. Get off the euphemism treadmill while words still mean things.

    Being capable of understanding what was meant is _not_ the only important part of writing. Communication requires effort from both the sender and interpreter, but the majority of the work belongs to the sender, who is asking for the receiver's attention. If the sender doesn't put enough effort into writing well, why should the receiver have to make up the difference? The sender apparently doesn't think the message is worth the skill and effort to write well, so potential readers can assume it isn't worth their attention.
    _Q_ likes this.
  3. morjax YouTuber & Moderator

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    It seems to be that there are two different topics at hand in this thread: 1) how fate coins can be got, and whether a purchaser of fate coins should be able to also watch ads for fate, and 2) whether fate coins should be usable for unique warriors/items, recovering from injuries, saving from death, or some combination of the above.

    1)
    On the first point, I think that even those that have bought fate should be allowed to watch ads for fate as well. Personally, I have bought fate and will do so again, AND also, I would love to support Legendary with my ad views if I was given the option. Some people are not able or willing to buy fate, and should be allowed to obtain some through ad views.

    I think that the ad watching for fate should be decoupled from the injuries page, and added as an option on the Temple page. Players can watch a few ads with either a daily limit (perhaps 1-2 fate earned per day) or with a matches played cooldown (once you play a few matches, you get another chance at watching an ad), or a combination thereof (everyone gets to earn 1-2 fate daily from ads, and more ads unlock every few matches in case you're playing a lot in one day).

    Today, fate costs about $0.29 USD to buy. Ads are worth some amount to legendary. For argument's sake, let's say that each ad is worth $0.10 to them. in this case, a player could choose to watch up to 6 ads per day from the temple page, thereby earning 1 fate every 3 ads watched. beyond that, a new ad unlocks every 2 matches played (meaning that on top of daily ads availabe, a player could earn 1 more fate for every 6 matches played). The daily limit of ads resets each day, but the matches played keeps a running total that rolls over from day to day.

    This would do a number of things:
    a) Players are rewarded for logging in regularly. Daily players are able to get more because of their regularity
    b) Players get to choose whether or not watching ads feels worth it to them. There has been a lot of discussion back and forth and I understand that some people abhor ads in games. This gives them the option to simply opt out.
    c) Players who are not able or willing to purchase fate are still able to access that part of gameplay, bought with their time watching ads, albeit at a slow rate.
    d) Players who buy fate are not "punished" by having their ad watching priviliges revoked. I want to be able to both buy fate and ALSO donate my time via ad views.
    e) This decouples the ad viewing experience from the stream of play. It is currently a disruption in the flow of playing to watch and ad, whereas if it was detached and put into the temple section, a player could simply watch a few ads just before or just after a play session, and then play uninterrupted for whetever length they like.

    2)
    On the topic of what fate should be allowed to be spent on, it's a contentious topic. I think we are pretty collectively in agreement that using fate to purchase hired swords, ogres, and special items is fine, especially since these can all (or almost all?) be purchased with gold eventually.

    I also like the idea of being able to save a unit from death with fate coins. It is a huge feel-good to be able to save a really experienced veteran. Similarly, it's a real feel-bad if a powerful unit dies and we had no way to save him. That unit comes to represent a great deal of invested time once you start to reach the higher levels of play.

    As for whether fate should be used to negate injuries, it's a very sticky topic. I personally greatly enjoy being able to save my precious units from lousy outcomes, and it makes it fun to be able to pay a bit in order to play a bit more cavalier a plkaystyle. That being said!! I remember that in the tabletop, getting injuries was part of what made each unit very unique. My memories and play experience would have been MUCH less memorable if I didn't have that precious unit that died, or Peg-Leg John who ended up being a very capable, yet slightly slow grizled veteran. These injuries added a LOT of flavor and lasting impressions to the gameplay.

    As much as I love being able to wave a wand and negate injuries, I do believe that the game would be better, more impactful, more memorable, and more self-balancing at the highest tiers if injuries were permanent and irreversible, but fate could still be used to buy hired swords, and prevent outright death.
  4. Trapsinger Major

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    I actually really like idea of unlocking an ad watch for a fate every couple of games, or something similar (rate should be based on ad revenue which I can't see obviously). Because if you only got one or two per game it would force you to choose which injuries to leave on your warriors, in case you needed the fate for something else. That would also add the personality to the units that morjax is talking about.
  5. morjax YouTuber & Moderator

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    I think my idea is a pretty good one... though I may also be biased on that front :D
  6. Igenham Corporal

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    I would agree that a limited amount of fate per day or week, would increase the loyalties of players to the game. Probably would need to play a battle to qualify for the daily rewards, though. Also, the new factions might need to no longer be unlockable with fate (not sure if that is trill the case).

    I agree that the wounds made characters more interesting for the tabletop, but with the app, you can chain 6-10 battles in the time it would take to do one tabletop game... So your characters are in far more danger on the app!

    In the app, you also have a team of heroes (the henchmen lvl up like heroes would on the tabletop), so they are far more powerful and valuable.

    Also, with the tabletop, losing a hero, even a high-tiered one, was not such a huge deal:
    Example with a human hero from the tabletop: Base cost (35), 2-handed weapon (15), heavy armor (50), for a total of 100 coins (about what you could get in 2-3 fights)
    Compared to the app : Base cost (25-250, but more likely 200), Comet Maul (80-120), full plate (400-500), for a total cost of 800 or so invested, which can take 40 or more fights to recoup, putting all your fighters in more danger...

    I just feel super frustrated when one of my guys goes down, and I know it will take days to replace, where in the tabletop, you could replace that far sooner.
    morjax likes this.
  7. Ewan Lamont
    Administrator

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    We value the feedback, fate spend on healing is one of the things keeping the game financially viable so we are really nervous about changing but may try it at some stage. I changed to thread name to encourage more people to join in.
  8. morjax YouTuber & Moderator

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    Of course the team must earn a living! Would it dramatically impact income streams to simply allow the option between spending fate or watching a video?

    Given that fate is already money spent when the user acquires it (even if the user simply sits on it forever and chooses never to spend it), allowing fate-havers to watch videos shouldn't result in any lost money for the devs. It is already the case that users who chose not to buy fate have the option to watch an ad.

    I am very curious on your thoughts to the two items I posted above, especially the first:
    * Either instead of or in addition to the "watch ad to remove injury", add a "watch 3 ads to earn a fate coin" in the Temple screen
    * Limit this either by daily limit, number of matches played, or both.
    * Keep a tally of progress toward next fate coin that persists day by day (either by an actual counter, or by counting each ad viewed as a "fate fragment", or "fate shard" until they add up to a whole fate coin (3-4 fragments to the coin).
    * This would allow users to stockpile some fate, and also allow the option to eventually do things like buy premium pets, or new factions through their ad watching.
    * Make the number of ads needed to earn a fate coin consistent with the revenue gained from watching ads versus buying fate so that dev revenue is not impacted whether someone opts to buy fate, or if they want to watch ads for fate.
  9. morjax YouTuber & Moderator

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    Come to think of it, if the "watch an ad right now to prevent an injury" is removed and replaced with a temple item of "watch an ad to get a fate fragment" and "redeem X fate fragments for a fate coin", revenue should actually increase, since all users will be removing injuries with fate (rather than with one ad, which I'm quite sure nets a lot less than the ~$0.25 that a fate coin costs when bought).
  10. Igenham Corporal

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    Yeah, it is hard balancing the desires of the community with the needs of the devs. They do deserve to get paid for their work.
  11. BluePetrograd Private

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    I thought the model for the Witch Hunters was a good idea - buy Fate to buy the faction. It worked out about the same (maybe? I'm not sure, I bought two of the smallest packs for 20 fate) but it invites you to use a system and show how it works, training otherwise skittish players (me, a bit) on how easy it is. It's a neat system.
  12. Shangular Major

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    As long as I'm having fun in this game, I'll continue to buy fate every month just to support its development. Many good points noted above. But one key and important pay structure which is why I love this company is that they have not set paywall on play limits like many other games do. Meaning you can play as many games as you want without spending any money. Please never change that. I'd rather have the current Fate structure than having to spend fate or wait 24 hours to play additional games (that BS makes me delete other games from my phone).

    My opinion on the ability to heal injuries, I agree that having to keep injuries can create more memorable warriors, but currently, any player can choose to not heal injuries and play that way. So the current system is fine, especially if changing it results in dropping the company's revenue and forcing them to think of other ways to charge us such as that paywall I mentioned above. There are some players who will always heal their warriors and if you play against them with your injured, one legged, one-eyed, brain damaged warband, think of it as a fun challenge. If you win it would be even more memorable.
    morjax, Amaan Shawkath and Igenham like this.

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