Ghoul Kings!

Jesse Shaffer

Brigadier
Are the enemies you try to resurrect "Dead" or only "Out of Action" ?
I’m not sure. But I’m also pretty sure I remember a time when it either didn’t matter or didn’t matter as much. It’s been a long time since I played undead so perhaps my memory is off but the present experience of playing undead with zero zombies and no opportunities to create them isn’t great.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
I’m not sure. But I’m also pretty sure I remember a time when it either didn’t matter or didn’t matter as much. It’s been a long time since I played undead so perhaps my memory is off but the present experience of playing undead with zero zombies and no opportunities to create them isn’t great.
It’s always been the Dead result for the spell to work
 

Shangular

Brigadier
Rending Claws really ought to be a tiered skill but I’ve given up hope.

The original Frenzy would fit perfectly with the lore but this Nerfed version has got to go. Berserker is a great idea. It or something similar would be a fantastic replacement.

I think they should be able to eat corpses to regain health. Who needs armor when you can just eat people? To prevent it from being over powered, all they’d need to do is give it a long enough list of requirements to unlock it. That way, the only players that use it will be those who have leveled high enough to genuinely need it.
Dug up my old Vamp Counts codex. Based on this, the strength upgrade makes a lot of sense since they are supposed to be the strongest of the 5 bloodlines. Regeneration makes sense too but would require additional programming work as it currently isn’t in the game mechanics as a skill although it does occur when someone recovers so possible to to.

But from an ease of programming I’d recommend giving the Strigoi 8 strength upgrades. The additional 2 beyond the 6 of the current von carstein vamp represents the +1 strength skill below. Also helps to offset the lack of tiered upgrades for Rendering claw. Give the Strigoi this, the resilient upgrade to 3 and bezerker skill and I’d be happy.
 

studer1972

Corporal
I like ther Strigoi, but agree they should be at least as strong and Defense bonused as standard vampires. 1 strigoi, 4 crypt horrors and 3 regular ghouls makes a non-sucky all ghoul warband. Why don't Strigoi get full combat skills? Finally, why are the Strigoi smaller than the crypt horrors?
 

Lamoth

Major
I speak from ignorance. I haven't played much strigoi yet. I see you talking about it being weaker than Voncarstein. The Voncarstein can be melee or magic caster. The strigoi, not wearing armor, can do everything at once, right? even if it is weaker in combat it makes up for it with magic.
 

Lamoth

Major
The Lesser Vampires of the Undead fraction can also be melee and magic caster.
But not at the same time. If you put Armor you cant cast. Strigoi armor íts based on a skill so he should me able to be a mixed CC/caster ???no??
 

Mork

Major
Ah, now I see what you mean!
They can still cast but with lesser probability according to their armour defence level but have also the Resilient-Skill.
Personally I think they don't need any further armour because of their high WS.
 
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Jesse Shaffer

Brigadier
Ah, now I see what you mean!
They can still cast but with lesser probability according to their armour defence level but have also the Resilient-Skill.
Personally I think they don't need any further armour because of their high WS.
WS is in no way whatsoever high compared to the game’s regular vampires. It’s lower. Weapon skill is lower, strength is lower, resilience is lower, and their only unique skill is just a common injury that we’re normally charged 1 fate to remove from other models.

I see the trend here. Blindness, frenzy, and next stupidity. Anyone want to bet that orcs will have a skill that makes them stupid?

Thematically, I think that’s hilarious and I’d be totally fine with it so long as the mitigating skills were handled correctly. They’ve done that with dwarves but they haven’t done S#%+ here. I mean that. They haven’t done a single thing. Not one.

That’s a shame too because frenzied Strigoi could be loads of fun if they used the original version of frenzy which doubled their attacks. They could lock it behind three wound increases and rending claws to keep units lower than 14 from using it.

This would finally give other warbands a reason to buy pets beyond the very early game.
 
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Mork

Major
I was talking of the WS of the regular vampires, not the Strigoi.
Strigoi as implemented here now are indeed weak and easy to kill.
 
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Jesse Shaffer

Brigadier
You are a genius! I want all of those. Infinite Hatred and Summon Ghouls are basically in the game already. It would be pretty funny if the summons were half the size of normal ghouls. At the very least, the developers should include Infinite Hatred since the code would largely be a direct copy and paste.

Here’s the full list of abilities we’re supposed to have:

Curse Of The Undead
The vampire is one of the everliving and is extraordinarily difficult to kill.
If the vampire goes OOA then after the battle he may regenerate all of his wounds on a D6 roll of 5+. If he is successful then he needn't roll on the serious injury table.

Infinite Hatred
Strigoi vampires have a deep feral hatred of all other creatures living or dead.
He may re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the first turn of each combat. He may only re-roll each dice once.

Quick Blood
The vampire is surprisingly agile for his bulk and can dodge attacks.
May improve his ward save to 5+

Blood Lust
The red thirst takes over the vampire and he fights with a burning rage. He is subject to frenzy.

Master Strike
The vampire has an uncanny knack of hitting his victims where it will do most damage.
He may cause a critical hit on a 5 or 6.

Dark Acolyte
His ability to cast spells comes more easily to him than most of his kind.
He gains +1 to difficulty roll to cast spells.

Bat Wings
A mutation said to come from drinking the blood of Fell Bats.
He may fly up to 12" in the movement phase. Can ignore terrain and climbing.

Revulsion
All vampires are frightening but this one is truly horrible to see.
Anyone taking a fear test because of the vampire is a t-1 Ld.

Infected Wound
The decay and putrefaction surrounding the vampire makes his attacks poisonous.
Effects as Black Lotus. Cannot be combined with corpse liquor.

Blood Kiss
Vampires survive by draining the life force from their victims.
May steal a wound from an enemy who is stunned or taken out of action in combat by the vampire. Wounds can be raised above the original starting level but the effect only lasts for the duration of the battle.

Iron Sinews
The vampire is endowed with a supernatural strength.
Vampire gains +1 strength, which may take him beyond the racial limit.

Hunter
The vampire relies on stealth and cunning to catch his victims.
He can spot hidden models at up to 2 x his initiative.
 
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Shangular

Brigadier
Perhaps to summarize for the developers, I'm seeing 2 categories of asks to make the Strigoi a true premium war band. Also this is from my experience in using this war band in many games ranging from facing 100 - 1,000 point pvp opponents.

1) First Category: Vampire Level setting - these changes are not because someone thinks its too weak or strong but simply because the current Von Carstein Vampire has them. Remember in WH Lore, the Von Carstein is the archetypical (average type) vampire. The other 4 bloodlines have advantages and disadvantages from this average. Thus the Strigoi should have the same number of WS, Strength and Resilient upgrades as the Von Carstein. This is consistent with WH Lore and needs to be corrected. I would guess adjusting the upgrades for skills to match the Von Carstein should be easy to do from a programming perspective.

2) Second Category: the additions of skills that have been mentioned in earlier posts. Looking at WH Codex, the Strigoi is supposed to be the strongest and toughest of the vampires. Also Regeneration is a key part of their game play. These adjustments are needed because tbh, the Strigoi does not feel like a vampire once you face opponents higher than 500. They have a very difficult time doing damage against armored opponents. Mine has max 75 WS and 70 Str and still gets plenty of 0 dmg hits against someone wearing gromil. The Von Carstein vampire feels like a true monster who will most likely kill or seriously damage anyone he charges. The Strigoi, not so much once you fight armored war bands. I bet many people who purchase this war band will feel this frustration as they begin to level up.
 
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Shangular

Brigadier
You are a genius! I want all of those. Infinite Hatred and Summon Ghouls are basically in the game already. It would be pretty funny if the summons were half the size of normal ghouls. At the very least, the developers should include Infinite Hatred since the code would largely be a direct copy and paste.

Here’s the full list of abilities we’re supposed to have:

Curse Of The Undead
The vampire is one of the everliving and is extraordinarily difficult to kill.
If the vampire goes OOA then after the battle he may regenerate all of his wounds on a D6 roll of 5+. If he is successful then he needn't roll on the serious injury table.

Infinite Hatred
Strigoi vampires have a deep feral hatred of all other creatures living or dead.
He may re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the first turn of each combat. He may only re-roll each dice once.

Quick Blood
The vampire is surprisingly agile for his bulk and can dodge attacks.
May improve his ward save to 5+

Blood Lust
The red thirst takes over the vampire and he fights with a burning rage. He is subject to frenzy.

Master Strike
The vampire has an uncanny knack of hitting his victims where it will do most damage.
He may cause a critical hit on a 5 or 6.

Dark Acolyte
His ability to cast spells comes more easily to him than most of his kind.
He gains +1 to difficulty roll to cast spells.

Bat Wings
A mutation said to come from drinking the blood of Fell Bats.
He may fly up to 12" in the movement phase. Can ignore terrain and climbing.

Revulsion
All vampires are frightening but this one is truly horrible to see.
Anyone taking a fear test because of the vampire is a t-1 Ld.

Infected Wound
The decay and putrefaction surrounding the vampire makes his attacks poisonous.
Effects as Black Lotus. Cannot be combined with corpse liquor.

Blood Kiss
Vampires survive by draining the life force from their victims.
May steal a wound from an enemy who is stunned or taken out of action in combat by the vampire. Wounds can be raised above the original starting level but the effect only lasts for the duration of the battle.

Iron Sinews
The vampire is endowed with a supernatural strength.
Vampire gains +1 strength, which may take him beyond the racial limit.

Hunter
The vampire relies on stealth and cunning to catch his victims.
He can spot hidden models at up to 2 x his initiative.
Actually, many of these abilities are already in the game today. Just need to rename some skills:

Iron Sinews: Just give him 8 strength upgrades, (2 more than the Von Carstein currently)
Hunter: Already has this.
Blood Lust: Already has this
Infinite Hatred: The slayer has this skill already (Great Grudge) and Witchhunters and Sisters too (Hatred) So just rename it and give it to the Strigoi.
Master Strike: Give him that one skill in the Combat Tree that increases the critical change.
Quick Blood: Just give him Step Aside

Those are probably the easiest programming wise. The others would be nice too, but at least give us those above and I will say it again, please add tiering to Rending Claw. This request isn't to make the Strigoi OP, it's simply just to make him viable.
 

Jesse Shaffer

Brigadier
Since Shangular forgot one, I’ll add it here:

Bat Wings is just Wings of Darkness. Even the icon can be kept the same. It would be nice though if the color was changed from red to purple but that’s just a nitpick.

Lastly, for accuracy, I think the frenzy skill should be renamed to Blood Lust and given the original Mordheim version of Frenzy—including the bit circled in blue. On TT, a model would no longer be frenzied for the rest of the match once it was either knocked down or stunned. On mobile, just tying it to a percentage of wounds probably makes the most sense. Basically, once a Strigoi or Crypt Horror suffers a good wack, they should no longer be frenzied.

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Ewan Lamont

Administrator
Staff member
First impression after playing a Strigoi solo. Mine's only at 229 rating but so far lots of fun. At this rating level, having 3 attacks is great and 7 movement. Although need to be careful for the horde assist counters and he has failed a couple of rout tests. But had a couple of questions as really the Strigoi is like the Undead warband with the exception of a different vampire. The strigany are basically dregs (same skills just different skin). So looking at the Strigoi vampire itself vs the Von Carstein vampire:

1) Strigoi only has 6 WS upgrades vs 8, which can make sense as they rely more on power vs finesse. After reading the WH codex, I change my position here. They should have the same WS upgrades as the Von Carstein who is supposed to be the baseline vampire. Blood Dragons are the ones who have higher WS, but Von Carstein and Strigoi should be equal.
2) Strigoi have max 12 (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) vs 10 W which offsets perhaps #1 above. They also have a basic starting attack of 3 vs 2 which offsets #1 above too.
3) Strigoi can't equip weapons or armor but have a unique Frenzy skill (still debating if it's worth it), is the extra attack worth losing the ability to strategically position?
Here are my 2 questions:
4) Strength, Strigoi only get 3 upgrades vs 6 for Von Carstein. Was this intentional or an oversight? A strigoi is a vampire and I would expect them to have the same max strength as a Von Carstien
5) Resilient, Strigoi only get 2 upgrades vs 3 for Von Carstein. Lorewise, I would think the Strigoi would be tougher. Actually they need this skill upgrade more because they can't equip armor.
The design brief was to make them slightly more unique than Von Carstein but yes on reflection they are looking a bit more King Goul than Strigoi Vampire. We are working on some new skills for them in the next update.
 

studer1972

Corporal
Strigany are a bit weedy, too. Only light armor, hats, padded coif and marauder shield are useable. Zealots, Dregs, and novices have access to better gear.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
Strigany are a bit weedy, too. Only light armor, hats, padded coif and marauder shield are useable. Zealots, Dregs, and novices have access to better gear.
Good point. I thought they were exactly the same as Dregs but apparently not. I've seen armor as high as a skull cuirass (30 Defense), but they are unable to equip it. Don't know why they would be prohibited from doing so. I see that weapons options are the same at least.
 

Jesse Shaffer

Brigadier
I think it’s a bit odd that we can hire a necromancer. Not that I’m actually complaining. Technically, though, we shouldn’t be able to.

There is however a faction-unique hired sword that would be a great replacement: the Charnel Guard. They’re normal ghouls who have been made cunning by feasting on the flesh of heroes giving them +2 to WS, +1 to BS, +1 to LD, and the ability to learn both Weapons Training and Advanced Weapons Training allowing them to wield any weapon available in the undead equipment list.

Since they are part of the Strigoi (in at least one of the books) and we don’t have skeletons instead of zombies or hellish looking bats and (presumably for fate) fell bats instead of dire wolves, this hired sword would go a long way towards giving this warband back some of its missing flavor. I’m pretty sure most of us would be willing to field all new warbands just to try these guys out. They’d also require less work than adding the 3 other models mentioned above while simultaneously being more lucrative to create. And lastly, from a gameplay perspective, they’re just damn fun.
 
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