How shooting exactly works?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Marquand, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Chaosticket Major

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    I see some inconsistencies between what were playing.

    Ther Elven Longbow, Hochland Long Rifle, and Scoped Long Rifle are all very rare. I know you can increase the chances of them being in the shop through Streetwise leader-exclusive skill I do not have. They are increasingly expensive by an order of magnitude.

    1 For me the Elven Longbow is about 120gold. Thats expensive but not impossible to purchase. Its rarity is the problem. It would be nice to purchase several as upgraded longbows and they would require less skills than Handguns, which are cheaper and more common.
    2 Hochland Long Rifle, 500 gold. Quite a bit harder to purchase. Purchasing and equipping several is a goal, but not likely one reached any time soon.
    3 Scoped Long Rifle, over a 1000 gold. Crossbow Training+Trick Shooter are far easier to unlock fairly early, long before you can afford ANY Rifle.

    So scaling a 15-20 gold Longbow, a 25-40 gold Crossbow, or a 75-110 gold Handgun are much more practical than the above "super weapons".
  2. etherkye Major

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    Really? You have strange prices.

    Check this sheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pPcgdzFjZ7wpvOCRi7MZXaDS5XpXHEKxyzny8akoR_4/edit#gid=0

    1. Elven bows should be about 92 gold, although I paid 77 gold for one. They are quite rare but I buy them as soon as I can, using long bows until they appear.

    2. It's 330-430gold, not quite 500. It's not easy no, they appear once every 20-30 battles. You need to save for them, but they are good.

    3. WHAT! Where did you see them at that price? Average is 473 gold for it, just 100 gold more then without the scope. There's no way it's 1000 gold coins!
  3. Chaosticket Major

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    6 man Warband, No Haggle and no Streetwise. Hochland Long Rifle cost 529 right now.
    OverWatch likes this.
  4. Overwatch Community Manager

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    I believe I've posted this in another thread but I'll make sure that you folks know what happens with the store here as well.

    Haggle will give you up to 20% off items in the store, so if you've got it, it can come in really handy. Prices for equipment are based on how many Warband members you have in total, so the more you have, the higher the prices will become. With this being said I have put forward a suggestion of changing this mechanic (based on feedback) so I'll see what the team thinks, and get back to you all once we've discussed this.
  5. Chaosticket Major

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    Yes you have, I have that chart bookmarked. Id like to add the price of the Visored Helm as 58-86 gold. The difference between costs changes drastically. I remember the cost of a repeater Handgun with 5 members showed up with a cost of 511. With 6 members it increased to 614. Thats a 103 gold difference.

    The cost of lower tier items is far less drastic. a Longbow goes form 15-20 roughly. I think it may be a percentage increase as the more expensive items go up by a hundred or more in gold per Warband member. I saw a Scoped Long Rifle for about 600 early in my warband, now theyre over 1000.

    Part of ranged combat isnt just choosing expensive and rare (maybe)superweapons but practicality. In the original Mordheim it kind of made things boring as everyone would equip the same thing. Equipping a bow on your entire warband was possible, and much more effective than here.
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    heh, I keep reaching new tiers of skill requirements to keep a viable warband. Early on longbows are just a good idea as there arent many good options for your off hand and charging with unarmored characters isnt a good idea.

    Now I cant do anything without Trick Shooter for accuracy and Quick Shot for damage output. Im debating on paying 100gold for Handguns or saving 500gold for Hochland Long Rifles. 4-6 Hochland Long rifles would cost about 3000 gold. Oh mercy.

    repeater handguns are not even on the table as they costs about 6 times as as a regular Handgun for 1 extra shot per turn.

    Ranged attacks are not balanced well. Against an unarmored melee target its suicide to not use cover and stealth. If you do theyre not effective especially at longer ranges. Oh and the chip damage. Im still wondering if this game will devolve into nothing but Full Plate and Greatswords. Ive already gotten build ideas for characters with 75+ strength, 65+ defense, 9 movement and so on.
  6. etherkye Major

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    Damn, I've never seen it that high!

    You can add 'suggestions' to the spreadsheet. Having the maximum and minimum prices on everything will help us work out whats going on.
  7. etherkye Major

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    Yea, that's outrageous!

    This is why I overbuy all my kit when my warband is small and plan ahead on kit before I get people to use it.
  8. Chaosticket Major

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    Getting off track with economics here.

    I dont know how you can buy expensive items early on. When youre earning on a little from a few shards early and you have no skills than sheer numbers help alot and you still cant get the things that cost hundreds. Increasing Warband size is a good idea as Wyrdstone value decreasing only by a little like -1 gold per shard. The drawback of items increasing...well the ones that costs hundreds start going up by about 20% every new warband member. Then warband size becomes a drawback as higher level options like Armor and Long Rifles costs dozens of games while trying not to take any losses. Still doesnt mean you can get Full plate without buying Freelance mercenaries early on.

    Weapon prices scale up quickly and greater than the benefit. Basic Marauder Greataxe still costs 30 gold. Next Greataxe slightly better for double the gold costs.

    Armor similar problem. Each one gets slightly better for much more expensive. Gromril armor takes the cake as it costs double what Full Plate costs for a +5 defense. Even early only Brigandine armor costs about 30 gold for +12 defense but next up, Jack O Plates has 4 high defense for double cost.

    Its much easier to make a "low-mid tier" warband with Crossbows, Brigandine Armor, and something like Weapon Mastery upgraded axe/greataxes than it is to purchase anything high level.
  9. etherkye Major

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    I think we're playing different games sometimes.

    You get 0-5 shards after a battle, warband size doesn't get you more shards unless you collect them in games on the few missions that have them.


    But things like gromril aren't required, and having 8 people in that would be ridiculous!
  10. Chaosticket Major

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    Ive once gotten 0 shards and twice gotten 10 or more shards. Usually its 3-4 without finding extras.

    But how can ranged attacks stay useful at higher tiers? Strongest ranged weapons are still only 40 attack strength so 0-4 damage. Critical chance seems the only way. 45% critical from one-handed axe, Weapon Mastery, and Stike to Injure skill may be a necessary step, more so than Parry from a sword. Gromril Axe would get 55% critical.

    Overwatch does critical hit increase from melee weapons and Strike to Injure affect ranged critical hit chance?

    Edit: found a scoped long rifle for 707 gold. So they can costs less than 1000.
  11. etherkye Major

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    Try it and see, as most of the top 10 are apparently heavy on range.

    And I have a warband with ONE member, who is ranged, and takes down entire warbands!

    Attached Files:

  12. Marquand Major

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    Try this with them lol.

    I see they fixed long rifles - they no longer ignore cover. Nice.

    Attached Files:

  13. etherkye Major

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    Ouch!

    And they didn't fix the rifle, just fixed the description.


    And Chaosticket thinks that the rifles are to expensive to get 7 of them!
  14. Chaosticket Major

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    Um you do notice that team is actually losing, right?
  15. Marquand Major

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    Not my warband and no, they were not loosing. Blue health bar is my warband's health. They killed my best warrior before my first turn even started lol.
  16. Gilar9 Private

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    How does Pistolier work really?

    I have tried to have one of my men with guns in both hands but he only shot 2 times instead of 4 which I would expected so.
  17. Marquand Major

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    If you're stationary you can fire up to 3 shots if I recall well.
  18. etherkye Major

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    You can shot them into combat!
  19. Chaosticket Major

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    Knives and Pistols are seemingly the worst ranged weapons.

    Knives require Throwing Training, Throwing Mastery, and the unique Knife Fighter. They common and cheap, but basically useless by themselves. Having 3 shots while running could be useful but I havent tested it out.

    Pistols are simpler as they benefit from blackpowder category of skills. That is still a heavy investment and not much use.

    Crossbow Pistols are accurate I think. Theyre not effective but being able to run and shoot could be useful.

    I dont know if any of them are good. Ingame a two-handed weapon is much more damaging and longer ranged weapons attack many times more often thanks to their range.
  20. etherkye Major

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    Pistols can be used if you are in combat, getting pistoler with 3 ATT and 2 pistols gives you 4 attacks in combat at STR 40 with - 15 armour piercing.

    They are melee weapons, not ranged.

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