How shooting exactly works?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Marquand, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Chaosticket Major

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    And even a basic 25-40gold Nordland Axe gives you +20% critical and +20 strength. With Mighty Blow and some lucky strength increase rolls you can get 70-80 strength and 3 attacks per turn.

    Or you can pick any one-handed weapon like a Gromril Axe and still get better results.

    In the original Mordheim, Pistols had a niche as things didnt go as high so have 2 40 strength armor piercing attacks every turn was actually quite good. Heere, in theory, Pistols and Pistolier would be a nice idea to make Marksmen capable of fighting in melee. Problem is requirements mean you still have to put points into melee, like 50 weapon skill, weapons training, and +2 attacks. At that point why not just pick up a (Gromril) Axe and a Handgun?

    Best plan I can see out of any of these short-ranged weapons is a hit-n-run/troll build. Get Eagle Eyes and you would have more range than anyone can have movement while still being able to run.
  2. Marquand Major

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    You don't use pistoliers as a front line melee fighters. You use them as a support.
    I train my pistolier as a fast, high I spotter. Ability to shoot after running is great especially with no loss at accuracy (with proper skills of course, you can't expect profit without investment).
    They should shoot from behind your engaged warriors into cc. No other shooting weapons can do that. Without being engaged you can move him where needed not fearing free strikes or being targeted at all.
    They can be used as a finishers when all your valuable cc troops are needed elsewhere.
    They are quite reliable in cc versus weaker warriors (marksmen), who have no melee weapons except daggers..

    They are very usefull if you don't throw them blindly into every enemy in range.
  3. Chaosticket Major

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    I think Ive reached a point where shooting doesnt work any more. At my point Ive reached where most enemies have topped out wounds, heavy armor, and maybe Dodge.

    All that together and I have about a 10% chance to cause 1 wound. I have to shoot 14 times to do a few points of damage on a team that has 70+ hit points.

    So should I shift all my characters to carry strong melee weapons? I can afford to give everyone Hochland Long Rifles.
  4. Gilar9 Private

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    For some reason my pistolier cannot shoot with the pistol, he always shoots with the offhand rifle. I have tried to put him in frontline to make him uses his pistol but he knocks enemy head instead...hiliroius but not what I expected. Am I missing any skill point?
  5. Marquand Major

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    Hm, if you mean that he only shoots with a left hand one it's just an animation, not a bug. He uses his right hand pistol just to punch people in the face. With pistolier and hunter you should have 2 ranged attacks. With quickshot that's 3 if you don't move.
  6. ScubaSteve Major

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    Well keeping a Marksman with a long rifle alive is not a problem. What you really have to be careful of is not getting robbed. My marksman with a long rifle was just robbed after a battle that I had won and I lost it all. I would much rather he have been killed instead so I could use fate to negate his death.

    One of the aspects of the game that I really changes over time is the shooting. It is relatively weak early on but once all the BS skills start piling up and the weapons improve shooting becomes EXTREMELY powerful in the late game so much so that by the tie your warband has a rating above 1000+ hand to hand is a rarity. Marksmanship is just so damn strong that you can kill anything long before it gets close to you.
  7. Chaosticket Major

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    I disagree on shooting being straight powerful. Early on its weak as you have to have multiple skills to become sufficient. Then when you reach that point(and the enemy doesnt have Freelancers with full plate) Shooting is actually quite good. Then it dwindles rapidly as characters get more hit points, the Dodge Skill, more armor.

    Youve already reached the peak of how much damage Longbows and Crossbows can do. Handguns are better than Crossbows on damage but make that up in weaker accuracy and range. Its only when the Hochland Long Rifles comes into play that shooting becomes effective and fun again, and even then it can be countered by stacking all the defenses together to make it more so-so. You never get the equivalent of a 3 attack character using a Greataxe, not to mention Frenzy doubles that.

    Its actually sad that the top-tier ranged weapons is weaker than high tier melee weapons, like the Gromril one-handed axe, no matter the build. Youre quite simply trying to chip off damage at range until the enemy team takes route tests.
  8. ScubaSteve Major

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    My problem with late game shooting is that when your warband is at 1000+ rating I ran into several warbands with multiple long rifles. Which is not as much fun to fight against as it sounds. Getting killed from halfway across the board is annoying. It was not until I gave my warband a 2nd long rifle that I started to win consistently again and in those situations even if the enemy had heavy armor I could still beat them. Even having Gromril armor was no defense against two long rifles gilling you from 40 spaces away.
  9. Chaosticket Major

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    Thats why I am hoping different kinds of warbands come out. Skaven are supposed to be about numerical superiority, speed, and stealth. Theyre the Zerg of Mordheim.

    It isnt helped that because of permanent character damage, slow progression, broken economy, and lack of reset options on skill points that there is little room for experimentation. A lot of the builds I could see are not useful like throwing weapons.
  10. ScubaSteve Major

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    Yes I see what you mean being able to reset your skill points would allow you to experiment more with characters since the only other way to do it is experiment with your costly skill increase. It could also be abused since players might just keep resetting their skills until they get the maximum number of points for each Weapon Skill increase.
  11. etherkye Major

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    I think people forget that if you walk around the side of buildings, not run, you can spend most of the game hidden and undetectable.
  12. ScubaSteve Major

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    Yessssssssssss you can... my warband has made a career of hiding three warriors, using two freeancers as meat shields for my marksmen to hide behind and having my two long rifle marksmen killing every enemy warrior that comes into range. The number of times my hiding warriors have had a chance to pop out and be useful is 1 game in 10 if I am lucky. I have gotten so bored with them that I miss the games when they actually used to fight.

    However, the maps are large that going on a sneaking offensive is hard to pull off and when they do pop out they are almost immediately killed by enemy marksmen ( unless my long rifles have finished them off first).

    However, fear not I do actually have a role for my sneaking warriors, they are back-up meatshields for when my Freelancers inevitably get put Out of Action.
    morjax likes this.
  13. Chaosticket Major

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    You could start a whole other topic about meat shield/tank characters. I cant use them as Im not trying to sacrifice my characters and I dont have mercenaries with free heavy armor.

    The AI abuses them like crazy.
  14. ScubaSteve Major

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    Chaosticket I do like that you are trying to play the game without spending additional money. I think there is also a discussion to be had of pay to play vs all in-game economy. I give credit to Legendary for being the first game in years that I actually wanted to spend additional money with.

    The only other game I have played and cared about as much was Hearthstone and they allowed you to earn in-game what you could also buy with money. Of course it took a lot of time to do so but I did the grind to avoid spending real world money and as a result I devoted dozensa and dozens of hours to the game without ever feeling taken advantage of.

    I would suggest for Mordheim Warband skirmish to really excel there needs to be a way to buy fate through in game mechanics. Maybe using shards to buy fate in stead of gold is not a bad idea.
  15. Marquand Major

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    Scuba what level are you?

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