Inconsistent shard values

[morjax]

Cheers, Salj!! I've added a sheet in my shared google sheet documenting your findings, and providing a place to catalog more numbers.

For those watching in the crowd: please submit your own numbers if
1) they differ from what we've found so far, or
2) if you have a number of members or stones that isn't yet cataloged!

I'll need more data to fill this out, but it seems to be that:
* if you have an odd number of members, you should sell stones in increments of 1, 2 or 7.
* if you have an even number of members, you should sell stones in increments of 1, 2, or 10.

 

[Salj]

To be honest I can't bring myself to sell at 2 I feel so ripped off

 

[Chaosticket]

I still cant seem to find any more than 2 wyrdstone at this time. Ive got Long Rifles but dont earn enough to buy good helmets or armor now.

I remember earning UP TO ELEVEN shards n battle. Now almost nothing.

 

[Salj]

Did you upgrade your leaders shard finding?

 

[Chaosticket]

Nope. I dont know if that is even worth the slot. Im reluctant to spend on that unless I get an actual detailed description instead of "increases the likelihood of finding shard" For all I know its a +1% chance increase.

 

[Salj]

The tabletop rules are these
Wyrdstone Hunter. The warrior has an uncanny ability to find hidden shards of wyrdstone. If a Hero with this skill is searching the ruins in the exploration phase you may re-roll one dice when rolling on the Exploration chart. The second result stands

 

[Chaosticket]

And that has nothing to do with what we have here as there isnt an exploration table.

In Mordheim up to 6 Hero characters still in action at the end of a fight would be able to search. Each character would have a d6 and if you got multiples you would encounter special events such as finding abandoned shops with equipment.

Now there are no Heroes or explorations.

 

[Salj]

Most of the rules we have are adapted from the table top, if anything says 15% that where for example a 6 on table top becomes a 5-6

 

[Chaosticket]

Again there is no exploration tableop..you know what this is off topic.

Shards-to-gold exchanges rates are low, too low. It would be better if it was more consistent like shards 2-20 were worth 17 each(before accounting for warband size) instead of the fluctuating value currently which makes it best to either spend 1 and hoard up the rest.

The wyrdstone find rates are also low. Its absurd that no matter how I do I still find small amounts. So when I take down teams of 8 characters in Full Plate Armor and get 1-4 shards I am very angry.

Maybe it would be better if shard rates actually increased, possibly based on combined character levels in a warband? That way the higher your warband goes the better than scaling. It would better match up the enormous gold costs of items.

 

[Salj]

If there is no exploration on tabletop what was etherkye quoting?

I don't mind that the wyrdstone is worth less as you get bigger. What bugs me is the fact that I had to calculate when the best time to sell was.

 

[Chaosticket]

from the original rulebook quoting

key: number of warriors=horizontal, number of wyrdstone shards=vertical

1-3 4-6 7-9
1 45 40 35
2 60 55 50
3 75 70 65
4 90 80 70
5 110 100 90
6 120 110 100
7 145 130 120
8+ 155 140 130

So each extra shard after the first should be worth 10-25 gold.

I did some estimates and it would require 500+ wyrdstone shards to equip a team with moderate equipment. It would be much more if you tried to equip everyone with a Long Rifle, Gromril Armor, Gromril weapons, and helmets.

 

[Salj]

How big is your team and what is your equipment cost?

Cuz I can usually get a decently equipped 6th member within a few fights.

 

[Chaosticket]

That depends on what you think as "decent"

1 Armor starts at brigandine at 30 gold, medium is skull cuirass which costs about 350 gold, heavy gromril costs 1100 gold
2 Helmet probably Champion helm 60 gold or Visored helm at 90 gold
3 weapons: well for ranged there is crossbow at 30 gold and long rifle at about 530-590 gold.
4 for melee it varies wildly by sword, axe, and mace.
4A A basic great axe only costs 30 gold and an Ostland great axe at 150 gold is a small improvement.A 5 gold hand axe can give you a +20% critical boost.
4B For maces its most important about what your defense cap is so you need a Comet Maul at 130 gold but for one handed weapons you want either a cheap 4 gold Warhammer or a 60 gold Skull Hammer.
4C for one handed swords a 30 gold Cutlas still give s a 20% Parry.

You can get some good useful equipment for low gold costs sure, but ranged combat=Long Rifles. Melee is more about having the skills necessary, namely 3 attacks, high strength, Mighty Blow, Fear, etc. In that case higher tier equipment becomes really inefficient by improving but also costing several times as much.

 

[Salj]

If your expecting a recruit to step in and have the same impact as your lvl 10 guy immediately it wont happen but they can still make an impact and you can boost him by having him make killing blows while your company dazes your opposing warband, sure it'll take some time.But in the end that's what the game is about.

But to keep to topic everything you've mentioned it maybe only about 10-20 shards worth so 4-5 matches, plus is you have gold left over so this eventuality, i have a spare set of armour or two from upgrading as i rarely sell back to the shop for this exact reason.

 

[Salj]

Here is the list for a 7 man squad till 10,

1 = 19 for the shard
2 = 25 so 6 for the shard
3 = 32 so 7 for the shard
4 = 40 so 8 for the shard
5 = 49 so 9 for the shard
6 = 58 so 10 for the shard
7 = 68 so 10 for the shard
8 = 77 so 11 for the shard
9 = 87 so 10 for the shard
10 = 97 so 10 for the shard

Looking at the limited data I have, i sold at 7 as per Morjax's theory

 

[morjax]

Added!

Interesting info; contrary to what some have indicated, it doesn't seem to always drop by 1 gc per extra member. for example,
* 6 members can sell 2 shards for 27, but 7 members sell for 25 (-2 gc difference),
* 6 members can sell 6 shards for 61, but 7 members sell for 58 (-3 gc difference),
* 6 members can sell 10 shards for 102, but 7 members sell for 97 (-5 gc difference),

Likely, by the time you can afford 7 members, you're not in a position where you must split hairs about one or two gold crowns, but there are always those who wish to min-max their proceedings

For everyone: If you sell wyrdstone outside of the parameters we have cataloged in the above linked sheet, please report your findings! We are still missing:
* Stone values for 1 member warband (you can even earn the stones with more members, fire down to 1, and see what sale prices are...).
* Stone values for 2 members (see comment above).
* Stone values for 8 members.
* Stone values for 4 members when selling 11 or more stones.
* Stone values for 5 members when selling 13 or more stones.
* Stone values for 6 members when selling 13 or more stones.
* Stone values for 7 members when selling 11 or more stones.

<3

 

[Salj]

I may do a two man squad fairly easy to get alot of shards with 3 then drop a member for testing purposes.

I know my data is a bit lacking but its hard to stockpile that many shards at higher levels but maybe one day

 

[morjax]

I may do a two man squad fairly easy to get alot of shards with 3 then drop a member for testing purposes.

I know my data is a bit lacking but its hard to stockpile that many shards at higher levels but maybe one day

Salj, I completely agree. It's tough to collect the data for higher shard count, and doubly so for the smallest warbands! No worries at all - the data you've collected so far has been stellar!

 

[C. Michael]

This is some fascinating information - thank you all for assembling this. Once I wrap my head around some of the data, I will add it to the wiki. But, the general consensus is either: sell 1, or wait. Some argument for selling 2 shards at a time, but, it's either 1 or 10.

Chaosticket, my own numbers are a little skewed - but, playing Marienburg: I find the Wyrdstone Hunter essentially keeps me getting a typical 3 shards (not counting finds). my 'finds' go something like this:

1: 1/6
2: 2/6
3: 3/6
4: 1/6

So, it seems to keep me roughly in the 3 shards per scenario range.

That being said - I'm guessing the prices changed since your posting (a lot), or the Marienburg bonus is just that amazing: but, with the Haggle skill - I buy for 550 G.

 

[Keovar]

Running a solo artist instead of a band, I get:
Shards = gold +add ~average *expected
1 = 25 +_ ~25 *12.7
2 = 34 +9 ~17 *25
3 = 42 +8 ~14 *38
4 = 52 +10 ~13 *50
5 = 64 +12 ~12.8 *63
6 = 76 +12 ~12.6_ *76
7 = 89 +13 ~12.7 *88
8 = 102 +13 ~12.7 *101
9 = 114 +12 ~12.6_ *114
10 = 127 +13 ~12.7 *126
11 = 140 +13 ~12.7 *139
12 = 152 +12 ~12.6_ *152
13 = 165 +13 ~12.69 *164
14 = 178 +13 ~12.7 *177
15 = 190 +12 ~12.6_ *190
16 = 203 +13 ~12.68 *202
17 = 216 +13 ~12.7 *215

So it looks like the value levels off and hovers around 12.6_. Selling a single shard gets me double, but since they're worth nothing unsold I want to clear them periodically. For a single member 'band', 8 shards looks like a good threshold at which to clear them out.