Money for Mayhem!

Jirk McGirk

Private
Never cared for the "never miss a shot with the golden gun/axe/club" AI gangs. Feels like they don't play by the same mechanics.
As far as the changes to income... it's a new cycle/update and this time, everyone is broke...just like 3 updates ago. Don't bother putting too many fighters out there and carry on
 

Behemoth

Private
Just ran another full cycle after waiting for more credits to build in the hive and vein. 4200 credits total. Got waxed as normal against the AI gang during patrol, in substantial part because a ganger closed the wrong door, smh. Looted 3 crates in the zone. Before the update, I would have expected about 8000 credits. Now it's a little over 4. Does the spokesperson who is claiming credits increased actually play the game? Who, exactly, is making more credits? Please show us specific examples of active players who are better off. Please give us a clear before and after breakdown. Otherwise, please stop making assertions that appear to be false to all who actively play the game.

Has *anyone* found the update beneficial to players?
 
Just ran another full cycle after waiting for more credits to build in the hive and vein. 4200 credits total. Got waxed as normal against the AI gang during patrol, in substantial part because a ganger closed the wrong door, smh. Looted 3 crates in the zone. Before the update, I would have expected about 8000 credits. Now it's a little over 4. Does the spokesperson who is claiming credits increased actually play the game? Who, exactly, is making more credits? Please show us specific examples of active players who are better off. Please give us a clear before and after breakdown. Otherwise, please stop making assertions that appear to be false to all who actively play the game.

Has *anyone* found the update beneficial to players?
I dislike most of the changes, as mentioned previously, but credit where credit is due: adding a reward, that's tied into reputation earned is positive. I'd happily see that stay, if the rewards from the Bad zones were reviewed, along with the amount earned from Hab & Slag & the cycle which they follow.

AI matching & lethality also needs consideration in my opinion, which a few other people are suggesting I believe.

SOB
 

Jirk McGirk

Private
Here's what I have figured out about AI lethality: If my squad is higher than 500 power, then I can expect them to get slaughtered by the AI never missing and always getting 12 and 14 point critical hits. So I keep the squads underpowered

About income: Badzones got nerfed hard, and it needed it. It was the only territory I was working (indeed, I only had fighters there and in training) until this update. The Habzone and Slag Heap have never produced enough income to justify keeping fighters there.
In this new update, Habzone is producing enough income to justify staffing it. It is an increase. Same with the Slag Heap, though, it's more hassle (stronger fighters have higher rating = more likelihood of meeting invincible AI and losing the income)

Getting income for Patrol is okay, but not really impressive, and not enough to pay for fighters actually on patrol. I don't believe I have been running patrols for the last couple of months.
So the biggest change is that I play about once an hour now, no longer run Badzones, and only staff the Habzone and Scrap Zone. The strategy has changed and the gang has adapted and continues to profit.
 

Powershot

Private
Just ran another full cycle after waiting for more credits to build in the hive and vein. 4200 credits total. Got waxed as normal against the AI gang during patrol, in substantial part because a ganger closed the wrong door, smh. Looted 3 crates in the zone. Before the update, I would have expected about 8000 credits. Now it's a little over 4. Does the spokesperson who is claiming credits increased actually play the game? Who, exactly, is making more credits? Please show us specific examples of active players who are better off. Please give us a clear before and after breakdown. Otherwise, please stop making assertions that appear to be false to all who actively play the game.

Has *anyone* found the update beneficial to players?
Not yet, definitely feel the way I play (in splurges, usually against ai) is detrimental to growing a gang now.
 

Ewan Lamont

Administrator
Staff member
Just ran another full cycle after waiting for more credits to build in the hive and vein. 4200 credits total. Got waxed as normal against the AI gang during patrol, in substantial part because a ganger closed the wrong door, smh. Looted 3 crates in the zone. Before the update, I would have expected about 8000 credits. Now it's a little over 4. Does the spokesperson who is claiming credits increased actually play the game? Who, exactly, is making more credits? Please show us specific examples of active players who are better off. Please give us a clear before and after breakdown. Otherwise, please stop making assertions that appear to be false to all who actively play the game.

Has *anyone* found the update beneficial to players?
I'm looking at the game data for all players. The credits nerf for Badzones is a bug fix. If you exclude that change most players are making much more money than they were before. I'm really sorry that we didn't spot the bug earlier and that some players incorporated a massively paying out Badzone into their playstyle and grew their gangs accordingly but we could not leave it the way it was. The original intention of the Badzone system was a way of getting equipment and archeotech with a few credits as a consolation if no item was found. It was never ever meant to be the huge cash cow it was for a few weeks. We are working on an upgrade to it to make the mission more fun and to significantly increase the payout in cash and items at higher levels. If anyone wants to be directly involved in the beta test for this change, the planned upgrades, and have a chance to shape the game before live releases please ask to join the beta by direct messaging us at admin@legendary-games.com
 
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Krestobal

Private
I'm looking at the game data for all players. The credits nerf for Badzones is a bug fix. If you exclude that change most players are making much more money than they were before. I'm really sorry that we didn't spot the bug earlier and that some players incorporated a massively paying out Badzone into their playstyle and grew their gangs accordingly but we could not leave it the way it was. The original intention of the Badzone system was a way of getting equipment and archeotech with a few credits as a consolation if no item was found. It was never ever meant to be the huge cash cow it was for a few weeks. We are working on an upgrade to it to make the mission more fun and to significantly increase the payout in cash and items at higher levels. If anyone wants to be directly involved in the beta test for this change, the planned upgrades, and have a chance to shape the game before live releases please ask to join the beta by direct messaging us at admin@legendary0games.com
Well if a scrap bottle or shiv on 350 willpower is called archeotech then everything is fine. If not, then what value of willpower must a player have to get something valuable? I have an upkeep of around 2000 and Hab and vein could only pay off the bills and spend something for healing or grenades. Badzones were the way to earn something for training and better equipment. What was wrong with the sums provided by Badzones? It's a dangerous mission with some real fighting after all and it payed out accordingly. Now a player must run more cycles to buy something better but Hab and vein accumulations make it useless to play more than once per hour. Well yes, a player can always fire some gangers to reduce the cost and stop raising power, but whats the goal of playing then?
 

Behemoth

Private
Exactly. I ran my small, new gang this morning. 1 unarmed dude running zones. 1 on patrol, so I'll get attacked elsewhere. Split up the other 6 dudes so I fight small, micro battles with super-small singles or pairs. Just grind, grind, grind for minimal pay out.

I have shelved my main gang for now.

I worked to build my main gang over several weeks to play according to the developers' rules. Now, I am told, sorry, that was a glitch. We never actually meant for people to do that. We never bothered to tell you that we would penalize you for following our rules that we alone created. We deliberately withheld information from you, but you should feel glad that we took your money under false pretences that you could actually continue to play under the rules we created for you.

Please forgive me if I am unamused.

Give me money back. Then I will go find something better to do.

Until then, please stop trying to justify this appallingly stupid update. I ask again, does anyone like the new system? Is it not simply a rather transparent attempt to increase the monetization of the game at the expense of players? If that is in fact the goal, just be honest about it. Every post from company reps feels deceptive to me. They simply increase the level of annoyance, as they make no sense whatsoever.

Maybe I'll check back later to see whether or not Legendary Games has changed its game to give players a fair deal.

Great job, folks. One supremely p. offed customer here.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
Tbh, the change alone of adding credits to each mission plus the Hab and Slag Vien timers are a good thing and I understood the intent from Legendary was to encourage more players by adding more credits. I think if that were the only change and the Badzones remained the same, most would like this new update.

I know many game companies are greedy and create money grab tactics such as paywalls, exhaustion systems, etc. But I've always found Legendary to be different and refreshing in that you can be successful in their games without being p2w (trust me, in their Mordheim game you can win a PvP season with a f2p 99 point war band, what other mobile games out there let you win a PvP season being f2p? I haven't seen any others). This game is no different as p2w gangs rarely matchup with f2p. I've continued to support their games for the past few years because of this.

I think what hit most players is that we assumed the BadZones change several weeks ago when the earnings were increased significant was intentional and got used to that level of credits earnings, only to find out, if I understood correctly reading the post above, that was a bug?

The 10K plus the Hab/Slag income generations allowed players to create developed gangs. If we had that plus the additional credits per mission like with the recent update, I think most players would be very happy.

To be fair, I did try out this new system with a brand new gang. That gang doesn't have bad zones yet, but the new system actually lets them earn credits quicker than the old system. I like that a new gang can farm Patrols with their main group and earn credits. Much better than having to hire 4 ppl who are under equipped and unskilled to man the Hab to credits in the old system.

But I do agree and recommend that the BadZones earnings need to be increased significantly. This allows players to create developed gangs and not have to play the boring upkeep management game where you'd have to unequip to lower upkeep or use loose chains instead of real weapons. I understand there needs to be some balance as we don't want everyone to get 1M credits in a week as a f2p. Since the cost of good gear has been increased in the Trade Bazaar, it balances out the increased credit earned as well.

In terms of injuries, I haven't noticed anything different (i.e. no increase changes of injuries).

I understand companies need to generate revenue. I think some ways would be to create more ease of life purchases like for example being injury free for a day at the cost of 10 favor or customizations that can only be purchased by favor, etc.
 

nahar

Corporal
If someone send to Badzones max willpower squad (as I do - my party has 539/540 willpower) reward should be respectfully valuable. For instance some master craft stuff like figting knife. I never got piece of equipment better than normal. Insteed of that before update usually I collected approx 10k credits and few damage and scrab weapon (after 5-7 cycles I went to shop selling all of them). Probably new system is better for lower RT gangs.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
Just a couple more suggestions to help resolve the concerns of earning credits
1) For bad zones, make each crate worth a base of 200 credits/bad zone level. So a Level 10 Badzones would earn 2,000 per crate, if you get all 4 you get 8,000. Make Will Power be used to see if you get bonus equipment from loot.

2) To encourage PvP, make Live Battle be worth at least 100 reputation. Based on this new system, PvP matches will then earn you at least 1,000 credits. PvP has been slow. I realize a reason is that there aren't many high level gangs. I run 3 gangs now within my Orlocks The Nineways: My main group which is the high level at 7,000, a mid-range group at under 3,000 and a low-level group at 600. I get a few Live battles with my 600 group every week. I've seen one Live battle with the 3,000 rated group. Was actually shocked to see the Live Battle sign pop up with that group. (good fight to Van Faust, whoever you are). Haven't seen any Live Battles with my main gang since they surpassed 5,000 upkeep rating and especially at 7,000 (I think there are gangs that would match up but those players perhaps don't PvP). But hoping with increased rewards, more PvP will be encouraged. I would expect to see the Low rated group get more matches.
 

Hammerfist

Private
Can't say I didn't love the Badzones glitch haha but yeah it was a little ridiculous how much it was paying. It made the game a little boring in my opinion. I was buying master crafted versions of all the weaponry just to have an impressive armoury to show off. Now, you have to think about your turn maneuvers and be a little more savvy with your spending. I like it :)

That being said, I'm not advocating for a return to continuous high payouts but how would you guys at Legendary feel about a "special event" kind of setup? random high paying periods just to mix things up a bit and give the small guys a chance to beef up their gangs. Just a thought. Peace

H
 

Powershot

Private
Is anyone else finding that when switching gangs the Hab/slag timers are set to the gang you switched from?
I thought I’d get around resources only once an hour by swapping gangs and playing a cycle with each but I’m finding the habs of the gangs I switch to are only giving minutes of earnings rather than the hours they’ve been waiting.
 
3 games in the last 2 days & the overall feel is:

-Upkeep is around 45% of my typical income, so little opportunity to train for credits or buy gear - it's one or the other.

-Playing against the AI feels like being penalised for not doing PvP, as the enemy gang is using hand flamers, heavy stubbers, multiple bolters, against my lasguns & laspistols.

-AI derived injuries are whitling down my faction, as I get at least 1 serious injury, up to 3 or 4.

-If resource gathering is time bound, then upkeep should also factor in timing, as income can be reduced, but not costs??

Overall, the games become harder to progress & even if you do, the AI will need significantly over powered, so that even 2 or 2 poor tactical decisions results in injuries/missed credits/faction cost. I wish it was just an low powered gang to have fun with again.

I can appreciate legendary games encouraging PvP, but this feels like punishment, more than just being a second class player, mixing out on extra reputation.

SOB

Summary shared below:

Cycle 1
Guilders 400 (rep) - 3 boxes + 1200
Badzones 600
Patrol 640 (2 laspistols, shockstave, 2 lasguns & knuckledusters and shivs, against 2 bolters & 1 bolt pistol & another ganger)
Hab 1647
Slag 1000
Upkeep 2550
Profit: 2937

Cycle 2
Guilders -waiting
Bad zones - 4 crates 600 credits + 1228 credits
Patrol - defeat 440 credits. 4-5 gangers, longlas (shot 1 square away - must be a pistol or melee variant), bolter, chainsword??
Hab2 -2401
Slag 1000
Upkeep 2556
Profit: 3113

Day 2
Cycle 1
Guilders - 420
Bad zones - 4 crates 600 credits + scrap strip kit + 961 credits
Patrol, lost (2 laspistols, shockstave, 2 lasguns & knuckledusters and shivs, against longlas & bolters) - 600 credits
Hab2 - 2075
Slag 1000
Upkeep 2577
Profit: 3079
 

Krestobal

Private
Reading the comments above I now understand that it wasn't me that unlucky or tactically retarded to face the NATO squads in battle. AI didn't get smarter with the update, it just gets top gear and training from a very powerful noble house from a Spire. The one with a dragon emblem. It doesn't make the game challenging, it makes it frustrating. With reduced income I think the best way is to return to loose chains and damaged stub pistols. No overpowered gangs, no high spendings, no need to donate real money to just keep floating. And thanks to update I don't to play the game more than once an hour. The only question is - why play at all?
 

Ewan Lamont

Administrator
Staff member
I've corrected the email address in the post above if anyone wanted to direct message us it is admin@legendary-games.com. The beta test is a separate app so play on it won't affect your live gang. The AI didn't get a change but we try and keep the match ups a challenge based on upkeep value if you think a skill or an item boosts upkeep by too much or too little please let us know.
 

Chronos

Major
I'm reading some of the criticism here and I think most of it comes from something that even if not stated was clearly a bug. Badzones were giving too many creds. My Van Saars with level 4 badzones went from earning 600-800 creds and some scrap items to 3000-4000 creds plus 500-1000 creds if I sold the items I got... Come on... Do you really thought that was intended?

With my Eschers I don't usually send anyone to the badzones (even with the credits bug) so comparing the usual credit income with the one I get now it has been increased. I usually play one turf a day, so I always have max credits for hab and slag mines, meaning 4000-4500 credits not counting on the creds I get for the missions. Therefore I've moved from getting hardly 3K to 5-6K with the update. So yes, some gang income has been improved. With my Van Saars I'm earning less credits than those I earned with the badlands bug, but probably more than before the bug.

Only real crticism from me on this update is that items cost seems to have been increased a lot (Like x5 at least with master crafted items). It doesn't affect me too much as I've gathered quite a few credits so far and I also have almost every weapon I want, but it seems a bit too high for certain weapons, and if that has been applied to every weapon tier it can be very difficult for new gangs to get decent weapons.

Regarding wounds or deaths I have found no difference, maybe you are being specially unlucky, but it seems the same to me. I just received one injury after the update while some time ago I got two dead gangers on the same day... So I'm assuming here that shit happens.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
Tbh, yes I did think the bad zones credit increase was intentional because back then I made the comment on Discord saying that was a great update with the increase and there was no comment back from Legendary.

Also players have complained that the bad zones loot prior wasn’t worth it and also that there wasn’t enough ability to earn credits to properly develop a gang. Thus I assumed the devs were addressing that complaint. Increasing the cost of master crafted equipment made sense with that increase on earned credits so that everyone doesn’t have full top gear in a week.

But even if the prior change/bug made bad zones too high and it probably was tbh, the way it is now is too low.

Also, I’d recommend making the timer credits be bonus and leaving the earning levels the same as prior so you could farm habs and slag vein as normal but get a bonus bump every hour.

From playing more so far, low level new gang this new system works well as I just farm patrols and collect hab every hour. Don’t have to worry if my hab guy who sucks gets attacked anymore as most credits come from patrol, 1000 on average. However with high level gangs this doesn’t work as you can’t earn enough for upkeep without deequipping most of your gang.
 
I'm reading some of the criticism here and I think most of it comes from something that even if not stated was clearly a bug. Badzones were giving too many creds. My Van Saars with level 4 badzones went from earning 600-800 creds and some scrap items to 3000-4000 creds plus 500-1000 creds if I sold the items I got... Come on... Do you really thought that was intended?

With my Eschers I don't usually send anyone to the badzones (even with the credits bug) so comparing the usual credit income with the one I get now it has been increased. I usually play one turf a day, so I always have max credits for hab and slag mines, meaning 4000-4500 credits not counting on the creds I get for the missions. Therefore I've moved from getting hardly 3K to 5-6K with the update. So yes, some gang income has been improved. With my Van Saars I'm earning less credits than those I earned with the badlands bug, but probably more than before the bug.

Only real criticism from me on this update is that items cost seems to have been increased a lot (Like x5 at least with master crafted items). It doesn't affect me too much as I've gathered quite a few credits so far and I also have almost every weapon I want, but it seems a bit too high for certain weapons, and if that has been applied to every weapon tier it can be very difficult for new gangs to get decent weapons.

Regarding wounds or deaths I have found no difference, maybe you are being specially unlucky, but it seems the same to me. I just received one injury after the update while some time ago I got two dead gangers on the same day... So I'm assuming here that shit happens.
I only really started playing a month or so ago, so didn't really know the badzones & typical payouts before the bug, which I also then recruited & outfitted a specialist team for.

For me & in line with the comment from @Ewan Lamont - the AI games are challenging & I've had many go down to the wire, especially between my little flashlights & their mass reactive death dealers. My concern with it, is the amount of wounds & therefore the downtime/faction cost of it. I have seen it stated that PvP is designed to generate less injuries, so I guess it's a question of penalising the non PvP players (as it is currently) or making the PvP benefits more attractive, then the additional reputation & therefore credit bonus already given.

And I've stopped buying superior or master crafted gear, or pretty much any gear at all, barring grapnells/strip kits/scopes, as I was worried I was going to face a terminator or leman russ one day. I had a shock when my 2 standard lasguns & 2 laspistols gangers saw a vansaar with a rad cannon bearing down on them. Luckily I rooted the other 3 gang members before he arrived, so he fled without firing a shot. I didn't particularly want to see what the business end could do

SOB
 
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