New PvP Tournament mode!

Prabdeep Bazaz

Social Media Manager
Staff member
Tournament-mode.png

This new system replaces private PvP with Warband specific private games and personalised leaderboards to check your progress against friends.

Give it a try!

Also, following community feedback we have added 2 new skills to the Strigoi Vampire:

Feed - If attacking an enemy in close combat causes them to be put out of action. This unit will be healed for 1 wound.
Prey Finder - The warrior's sight is exceptionally keen. Any target counts as being 6 squares closer. This includes Spot Hidden tests.

Download the update on Browser, Android and Apple.

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I've always found it strange that vampires in Warhammer Fantasy don't seem to have a bite attack or a way to do feed on the blood of their prey that is so quintessential to vampirism, so I'm very glad to see this new Feed skill! I have a few questions about it:

1. Will this skill be available to other vampires? If not, can the flavor text of Feed reflect the reason why?
2. Am I reading it right that only 1 wound is restored each time it triggers? If so, why is it only 1? Since the conversion from tabletop to this game generally holds that 1 tabletop wound is 3-5 wounds in this game, it seems to me it should be a least 3 and possibly 3-5 based in the example set by the Life Stealer spell.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
Love this update!!! Thank you for listening to our concerns.

The PvP tournament is a great idea....especially because it keeps the PvP shard count separate from the Monthly PvP. Thus people can't use private pvp to dual device farm shards. Imo, this is the best part of this feature :)

This 2 new skills are good and in line with the spirit of the Strigoi. Also appreciate updating the WS and Str upgrades to match the Von Carstein Vampire. The Resilient skill is still capped at 2/2 however, instead of the 3/3 on the Von Carstein.

Looking forward to testing out my Strigoi with these new changes. Hoping the increased WS and Str makes them viable against gromil/shield opponents lol
 

Jesse Shaffer

Brigadier
Thank you for listening to community feedback. While I also have a warband with Strigany and a Necromancer, my primary warband has consisted of a Strigoi with an initial rating 109, 3 Ghouls, and 4 Crypt Horrors. After leveling that warband to 2935, I have some thoughts:

Pets & Necromancy
  • Without a human necromancer, Strigoi warbands should still be able to equip zombies as pets. I have 20+ zombies at the moment and I can't equip any of them.
  • Strigoi are supposed to be better at casting than other vampires. Please give Sorcery a second level. He'd still be poorer at casting than a von Carstein in a Necrach's robe.

"Quick, Nimble, Savage"
  • The more I play my frenzied Strigoi and four frenzied Crypt Horrors, the more I feel Ghouls and Strigany should also be frenzied. The loss of player agency can be brutal at times but the madness of the rushing mob can also be quite fun and leads to unique experiences no other warband provides. It really ought to be the soul of a Strigoi warband. Please consider it.
  • Improved though he is, the Ghoul King still feels more like a Crypt Horror than a vampire. A re-roll skill would help. How about Hatred of the Living?

Frenzy and Player Agency
While it’s true that Frenzy increases the tactical value of a model by increasing its attacks (and activating Unstoppable Charge regardless of distance), it is also decreases the strategic value considerably which is amplified as it levels. As makers of a tactical game, you know that strategies are supposed to open up as a model levels. Frenzy prevents much of that from happening. As the gulf between what your opponents can do and what Frenzy allows you to do grows increasingly wider, the significance of its +1 attack decreases toward zero. The four debilitations below are the norm of gameplay for frenzied units:
  • Frequent premature entry of combat
  • Frequent inability to use close combat as a shield against ranged fire resulting in units spending their time between turns standing in the open getting torn to smithereens by ranged opponents until they are inevitably put OA
  • Frequent inability to conform to a predetermined path often making making things like escape impossible.
  • Frequent inability to target the most dangerous foe for multiple turns
  • Given the fact that the Strigoi vampire specifically has significantly higher initiative than the rest of his warband, he can easily become isolated in the turn order with a minor investment of skillpoints. This means he will typically be and be attacking alone when frenzied at higher levels and be immediately subject to the wrath of hoard assist.
As an injury, +1 attack is perfect for mobile. As a skill, however, +1 is not enough. By 1500, +2 is honestly needed. As an alternative, there's a behavior that might make a second attack unnecessary since it would substantially reduce a common source of OA. If the attacking player's previous model in the turn order has Frenzy/Blood Lust, is in range, and is not in combat, then let it move simultaneously to the new target and attack it once at half strength. Half strength wont amount to much against armored enemies but it will allow the frenzied unit to use close combat as a shield against ranged attacks. It would also go a long way towards making them feel "quick, nimble, savage."

Feed
Feed needs a little work. On a screen the size of an iPhone 11's, the remaining health in the healthbar doesn't discernibly increase when it should and there are no other visual cues to suggest that anything has happened. At level 28, my main Strigoi with Feed dies far more often than he did at level 10 without it. It's hard to know if the skill is even working. If it is, then its effect on gameplay seems imperceptible. As Aegir suggested above, it should probably be three points. Especially considering he only has 1 heath point more than a von Carstein vampire but less defense than a normal ghoul.

Defense
Rather than starting with absolutely nothing, it would make more sense for the Ghoul King to start with a base defense of 15 just like every other ghoul. Retain the two tiers of Resilience he already has, and you'll have far happier customers. He will still have 45 defense less than a Gromril wearing von Carstein.
 
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Shangular

Brigadier
Thank you for listening to community feedback. While I also have a warband with Strigany and a Necromancer, my primary warband has consisted of a Strigoi with an initial rating 109, 3 Ghouls, and 4 Crypt Horrors. After leveling that warband to 29235, I have some thoughts:

Pets & Necromancy
  • Without a human necromancer, Strigoi warbands should still be able to equip zombies as pets. I have 20+ zombies at the moment and I can't equip any of them.
  • Strigoi are supposed to be better at casting than other vampires. Please give Sorcery a second level. He'd still be poorer at casting than a von Carstein in a Necrach's robe.

"Quick, Nimble, Savage"
  • The more I play my frenzied Strigoi and four frenzied Crypt Horrors, the more I feel Ghouls and Strigany should also be frenzied. The loss of player agency can be brutal at times but the madness of the rushing mob can also be quite fun and leads to unique experiences no other warband provides. It really ought to be the soul of a Strigoi warband. Please consider it.
  • Improved though he is, the Ghoul King still feels more like a Crypt Horror than a vampire. A re-roll skill would help. How about Hatred of the Living?

Frenzy and Player Agency
While it’s true that Frenzy increases the tactical value of a model by increasing its attacks (and activating Unstoppable Charge regardless of distance), it is also decreases the strategic value considerably which is amplified as it levels. As makers of a tactical game, you know that strategies are supposed to open up as a model levels. Frenzy prevents much of that from happening. As the gulf between what your opponents can do and what Frenzy allows you to do grows increasingly wider, the significance of its +1 attack decreases toward zero. The four debilitations below are the norm of gameplay for frenzied units:
  • Frequent premature entry of combat
  • Frequent inability to use close combat as a shield against ranged fire resulting in units spending their time between turns standing in the open getting torn to smithereens by ranged opponents until they are inevitably put OA
  • Frequent inability to conform to a predetermined path often making making things like escape impossible.
  • Frequent inability to target the most dangerous foe for multiple turns
  • Given the fact that the Strigoi vampire specifically has significantly higher initiative than the rest of his warband, he can easily become isolated in the turn order with a minor investment of skillpoints. This means he will typically be and be attacking alone when frenzied at higher levels and be immediately subject to the wrath of hoard assist.
As an injury, +1 attack is perfect for mobile. As a skill, however, +1 is not enough. By 1500, +2 is honestly needed. As an alternative, there's a behavior that might make a second attack unnecessary since if would substantially reduce a common source of OA. If the attacking player's previous model in the turn order has Frenzy/Blood Lust, is in range, and is not in combat, then let it move simultaneously to the new target and attack it once at half strength. Half strength wont amount to much against armored enemies but it will allow the frenzied to use close combat as a shield. It would also go a long way towards making them feel "quick, nimble, savage."

Feed
Feed needs a little work. On a screen the size of an iPhone 11's, the remaining health in the healthbar doesn't discernibly increase when it should and there are no other visual cues to suggest that anything has happened. At level 28, my main Strigoi with Feed dies far more often than he did at level 10 without it. It's hard to know if the skill is even working. If it is, then its effect on gameplay seems imperceptible. As Aegir suggested above, it should probably be three points. Especially considering he only has 1 heath point more than a von Carstein vampire but less defense than a normal ghoul.

Defense
Rather than starting with absolutely nothing, it would make more sense for the Ghoul King to start with a base defense of 15 just like every other ghoul. Retain the two tiers of Resilience he already has, and you'll have far happier customers. He will still have 45 defense less than a Gromril wearing von Carstein.
Good points here. But I have a different view on on a couple of the items you mentioned.

1) Concerning Necromancy, Strigoi are not better than other vampires. They have an innate ability to cast, but not better. The Necrarch would be the vampire bloodline that is a better caster.

2) Frenzy - concerning this skill, I understand that it's supposed to be a trade-off of an extra attack in exchange for less strategic positioning ability. It feels fine for the Crypt Horror as they are bloodthirsty monsters with little intelligence. Probably doesn't make sense for the Strigoi to select though. But the problem I find is that these multiple attacks are mostly useless against armored opponents because Rend isn't useful at high levels. Thus the issue is more that Rend needs tiering vs any other skill for this warband.

Leads me to my next point, I tried a one on one vs a Carstein vampire. Both have max WS and Strength. I even let the Strigoi attack first. The results were very one sided as both have the same WS and Str, but the Strigoi did very very little damage due to the Carstein's high defense. When the Carstein attacked (I had him equipped with comet maul), it was an easy kill. Lore wise, this should not be. The Strigoi should be a better fighter or at least this should be an equal match-up. Thus again, the problem lies in the Rend skill not being tiered.

The way the Strigoi plays today, it's fun and fine at low levels. But when you get to end game (my definition 4,000 based on the last map unlocking), I bet you will find many frustrated and disappointed players because you will consistently be fighting opponents with max WS, Defense and armor.
 
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Jesse Shaffer

Brigadier
Good points here. But I have a different view on on a couple of the items you mentioned.

1) Concerning Necromancy, Strigoi are not better than other vampires. They have an innate ability to cast, but not better. The Necrarch would be the vampire bloodline that is a better caster.

2) Frenzy - concerning this skill, I understand that it's supposed to be a trade-off of an extra attack in exchange for less strategic positioning ability. It feels fine for the Crypt Horror as they are bloodthirsty monsters with little intelligence. Probably doesn't make sense for the Strigoi to select though. But the problem I find is that these multiple attacks are mostly useless against armored opponents because Rend isn't useful at high levels. Thus the issue is more that Rend needs tiering vs any other skill for this warband.

Leads me to my next point, I tried a one on one vs a Carstein vampire. Both have max WS and Strength. I even let the Strigoi attack first. The results were very one sided as both have the same WS and Str, but the Strigoi did very very little damage due to the Carstein's high defense. When the Carstein attacked (I had him equipped with comet maul), it was an easy kill. Lore wise, this should not be. The Strigoi should be a better fighter or at least this should be an equal match-up. Thus again, the problem lies in the Rend skill not being tiered.

The way the Strigoi plays today, it's fun and fine at low levels. But when you get to end game (my definition 4,000 based on the last map unlocking), I bet you will find many frustrated and disappointed players because you will consistently be fighting opponents with max WS, Defense and armor.
Necromancy
There are a couple of different Mordheim specific rulesets for Strigoi. The one recommended to me by a Games Workshop employee is the Karak Azgal. That one has the Dark Acolyte skill which gives him an extra +1 to his difficulty roll which translates into +10% for Skirmish. I don't claim to be an expert on lore but, from what I've read, they appear to have a very strong natural ability that is less refined. To me, that sounds like they should have access to fewer spells but be better at them. Although, to my knowledge, none of the rulebooks have ever handled it that way.

From a gameplay perspective I doubt I'm alone in saying that both playing as and playing against Undead is just more fun with zombies in the mix. Personally, I just want it so that all-ghoul versions of Strigoi can have the same chance at successes with Reanimation as Strigoi warbands that hire humans. While including Dark Acolyte as a separate academic skill would be totally fine, simply adding a second tier to Sorcery strikes me as more elegant.

Frenzy
With respect to Frenzy, that was me trying to solve a problem through its cause and was meant in the context of an all-frenzied warband. The more units one has on their roster with Frenzy, the less options one has. If all eight have it, +1 attack is not enough. As a trait, the gimped version of Frenzy is all well and good for Crypt Horrors because no one is asking us to put a point into it. Traits can be more negative than positive. Skills don't work that way. Skills add clear unambiguous value or their synonym wouldn't be upgrade. An injury we pay to remove is not an upgrade but it can totally be a trait. A person I know who plays the game but who has zero intrest in the forum mentioned to me that asking us to put a point in something we pay to remove felt a little insulting. I wouldn't go that far but I do understand where she's coming from. Honestly, if Legendary wants us to use Blood Lust but isn't interested in increasing its added value, then they shouldn't ask us to spend a point on it. Like Crypt Horrors, it should come pre-selected so we can chalk it up to personality.

Rending Claws
You're absolutely right. I had just lost hope that they would ever do that. In retrospect, that attitude is self-defeating. My Ghoul King only has a chance against high armor enemies thanks to hoard assist. Unlike a vampire, there's no way he'd be of much value alone. He has the same strength, same armor penetration, same number of hits, and the same gameplay as a Crypt Horror. He has more health, sure, but he also has less defense (a third of which is situational). Against most armored enemies now, his 20% extra chance to hit is really only noticeable when he doesn't hit first. If a Ghoul King was not at all a vampire but, instead, just a meaner version of a Crypt Horror, then this version would be spot-on.

One way to make him feel better would be to add the leap skill (forgot the name) from one of the other rulebooks. Rather than turn into a bat, it let him jump 12" (30.48 cm) in any direction during the movement phase.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
With Necromancy I was thinking about the version where they had Dark Arts which gave them access to spells. It think they should start out having it unlocked. In terms of which bloodline is best I was referring to the Codexes. Agree with also unlocking zombies.
FDFF7E75-CDB9-4AB2-AA85-18A41FFD513A.jpeg
For Frenzy, I think a solution may be to add tiering to this so you could get +2 with additional skill point spent.
 

Jesse Shaffer

Brigadier
That's the The Survivors of Strigos. It's really good too. I just prefer ghouls (charnel guard) to humans (domnu). Must be because of all the lawyers in my family! ;)

I did some digging and found the official rules for Strigoi from the unpublished Town Cryer Issue #29.

To make a Strigoi, take a von Carstein and do the following:
  • add +10 strength
  • add +1 attack without Frenzy to his starting attacks but remove the use of weapons and armor. Resilience on mobile would be identical to von Carstein
  • add +1 wounds on TT which doesn’t count against the vampire max stats. On mobile this would translate to adding >1 to his base wounds
  • Add Hatred for all living things
  • Add a 50% chance to negate any wound he doesn’t get a save on :cool:
  • Necromancers and Dregs cost 10 gc more and hired swords are unavailable
It’s not the most creative ruleset but that 50% chance to negate every wound is pretty sweet and it does confirm the thing that every one of us has said from the beginning: that his resilience is wrong. However, I don’t think it’s necessary to hold doggedly to these rules either just because they were created by Games Workshop. Issue 29 was also planned to contain changes to von Carstein vampires and it would be both unrealistic and unfair to hold Legendary to it.

The current build of the Strigoi is too buttery to feel fun for long. And that is a real shame. As long as Legendary has the will, however, I'm sure they can get it right. They have plenty of great rules from plenty of sources to pull from.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
Agree with you, we're all saying the same thing: current Strigoi still needs work to make it viable beyond 200-300 rating games. I think there are plenty of good suggestions mentioned to make it happen and many already appear to have the programming in place (such as Hatred, increase strength, etc.) Hopefully these will be implemented as I really do like the Strigoi concept, imo one of the more interesting bloodlines.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
Also one more change that needs to be made to the Strigoi to make it in line with a vampire. I forgot that the Von Carstein vampire has a max starting initiative of 55 whearas the Strigoi max I believe is 45? I've never seen higher. They both should have the same starting max initiative.
 
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