Rating Adjustments in latest update.

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Shangular, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. Shangular Brigadier

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    While I agree that the former rating weights need to be adjusted , I think the adjustment needs to be more at the curve at the lower level end not at the high end. My fear before was messing up something in end game which was never an issue. Looks like this recent update may have. For example my Skaven warband was about 2500 rated which now jumped to 7600. 88791034-8CF9-4F1C-A483-1A92D5A7248C.jpeg

    However, simply changing the leaders warplock pistol to throwing star and leaving the other members the same results in a jump to 15000 in rating!! This can’t be correct.
    A8BDD4EF-B51B-4B42-B5DD-E280282EB102.jpeg

    Bottom line: This rating weight system needs more refinement.
    Perl Fisher likes this.
  2. Shangular Brigadier

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    I think the calculation problem lies in the fact that arming the throwing star shows a deceptive 75 pct crit. This is deceptive in that the crit from the Art of Silent Death and Strike to Iniure only apply to melee and the crit bonus for the throwing stars only applies to ranged attacks. I think your formula is not accounting for that.
    Perl Fisher likes this.
  3. Blackstaff Corporal

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    My dwarves went from a carefully moderated 6927 to over 26000. Other warbands were more or less similarly inflated. And this fixes what exactly? After adjusting to the old system, we are given a more ridiculous one, complete with extra numbers!

    Way to go.

    ETA: For the sake of science, or accuracy or whatever, the actual rating increase was from 6927 to 23712. My witch hunters were increased to over 26k. Switching two warriors from gromril axes to skull hammers reduced the dwarves' rating to 18181, still an eye-popping increase, but more reasonable I suppose. Before, that same weapon switch would have reduced the rating by 400 points.

    Point is, it still seems to me like the rating calculations just added a 0. I take small consolation in the fact that this change is happening to others, not just me. :p
  4. Mork Corporal

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    And I am concerned that the rating of my Reikländers rose from 756 to 1313... ;)
    The odd thing about that: I still had to do the New Area (800).
    There I was nearly wiped out by a skaven 800er warband (their rating hadn't changed) and even didn't get the "survived against a similar or higher rated warband" - bonus because of my ridiculous 1313-rating!!! o_O
    The skaven were named "Warped Sylens" and my marksmen, inspite of having Ballistic Skills of 62 plus a 5 point blessing, performed like throwing little branches... :(
  5. CzaRus Major

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    Since I build all of my current Merc bands the same (I rarely play WH), the rating increase was almost the same, only 200-600 point range of rating increase. F.e. my Marienburgers used to be 960, now 1100 (Warlock captain w/pistol and skull hammer + 3 marksmen with long rifles), no problem. Old Middenheimers were 1900, now 2500 and they can still kick @ss. My new Middenheimers were 280 and now are 450, they alone experience a little unbalance, facing full band opponents with heavy armor and multiple attacks, but still managable if I have good spawn location. Since now the rating is kinda....more messy? Finding a PVP should now in theory not be a problem, which is an upside I suppose. More examination is required to have a final conclusion imo.
  6. Blackstaff Corporal

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    My dwarves are having a much harder time now, and more than half the time get no survival xp, let alone an underdog bonus.

    Having read the above posts by others, my current opinion is that while the rating fix may be helpful at the low end of warband ratings, it's a disaster for the high end upper ratings.

    Which is where I play all my bands now. Two of them have become nearly unplayable, and notably my dwarves are as much as 10K higher in rating over bands similarly or much higher rated just two days ago.
  7. Mork Corporal

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    Hoping the best I now did with my Reikländers (meanwhile 1322) the New Area (900).
    A terrible mistake!!!
    The rating of this 900er skaven warband "I Sorci Verdi" had definitely not been adjusted too.
    I guess they should have a rating somewhere over 1600.
    Inspite having allegedly the advantage I was attacked by them first.
    They had multiple attacks (e. g. 6 in a row) and inspite having a +5 defence blessing all my men (except the captain who could use healing herbs) were wiped out.
    The men fought brave but in the end my captain gave up first and now I am running out of fate points and gold...
    By the way, again I didn't get any surviving-XPs (and above all no underdog-XPs) inspite this warband should have had clearly a much higher ranking than mine.
  8. Blackstaff Corporal

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    I for one would appreciate more input from a viewpoint opposing mine, some sign that this change is good for the game. I strive for balanced conclusions, rather than hotheaded tirades (though I've posted some of those, I'll admit).

    Perhaps the developers could weigh in about the change? The claim of better balanced matchups is thus far incorrect in my experience.
  9. Mork Corporal

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    Even if the new rating might have any upsides, it's obvious that the update wasn't well done because they forgot to adjust the New Area - warbands. This may be a bigger problem: of course the New Area - rating itself has to be adjusted now.
    Because no developer seems to participate in the discussion, I will fill out the bug report form.
  10. Kendofarfar Private

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    Yeah, it seems that the warbands I oppose did not get the same treatment. I just took my dwarves out for a spin (~2300, used to be ~850)mostly equipped in brigandine, one chain mail, basic battle axes, one handgun etc.) to be faced with a dwarf warband(~2200) where they all were wearing plate, three of them had repeater handguns and so on. Skills seemed on par.
    Sent a bug report, taking a break until this is cleared up.
    CzaRus likes this.
  11. Ewan Lamont
    Administrator

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    Thanks for the feedback. We were expecting rating to reduce slightly unless you had very powerful wizards or lots of pistol armed guys. We are anlysing the points you are bringing up now. Any extra information you can add could really help us speed up getting a hot fix out. Warband names and specific characters or weapons that look wrong will be really useful.
  12. CzaRus Major

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    I suppose the biggest issue is that accounts which did not yet go through the update have still warbands with the old rating, which we are forced to face when playing against AI, since those are bands borrowed from players. Even when you look at "Load Warbands", they have old rating until you load them and therefore update their rating. This way we are forced to play against stronger bands without any underdog or whatever.
    I did not find magic to be very influencing to be honest, mainly because it is overshadowed by the melee rating increase (sometimes very extreme). I did not find ranged to be very punishing in Merc bands either.
    I can hardly suggest anything but to put it back for now, because melee at low ratings is almost unplayable (4 lvl 16-12 lads with hardly 2 A vs full armoured bands with 2-3 A each model and 2 handed weapons, rating ~500).
  13. Ewan Lamont
    Administrator

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    OK We have found an element of the equation that we think will improve this. The change is inbound later today.
  14. Blackstaff Corporal

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    The hotfix is much appreciated. I didn't have heart trouble when I saw my new ratings, today.
  15. Perl Fisher Private

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    Most of my warbands (with a few exceptions, see below) have seen a ~50% increase in power rating with the new way of calculating it. This is across the board with skaven, undead, reikländers etc. and seems fair enough, since it applies equally to everybody and allows new warbands to unlock the different areas of the city a bit sooner.

    I had hoped however that the new formula better would reflect the many extra powerful attacks you get with dual pistols (esp. skaven warplocks), which the old one did not take into account, but it does not.
    Instead it seems the new formula is much too focused on two things:
    A) High no. of attacks
    B) Chance of (melee) critical hit

    Re A: One of my Reikland warbands jumped from an even 1200 to a whooping ~4200 with the update (a 250% increase), and I think it’s the bc of the warband’s dwarven Slayer with 8 attacks. When the dwarf is knocked out, and wb has to do without him, the matched rating drops to just ~450. The old power rating jumped quite a lot, when slayers doubled their # of attacks with Berserker, and it seems the new does so even more.
    (This warband was already underpowered bc of the Berserker rating boost with the old formula, and struggled to keep up with other wbs in the 1000-1500 range. At the current 4200 rating, they will get pasted in record time. C’est la vie.)

    Re B: In the same wb, a marksman with a (rarely used) skull hammer in his right hand that also gets equipped with a hochland rifle in his left hand will now make the rating jump ~100. If he instead has an axe (giving him a +10% crit. chance) in his right hand when he is equipped with the rifle, the rating will instead jump ~200. A rifle is not that much more powerful combined with an axe than with a hammer, esp. since melee weapons will very rarely come into play with a sniper. The huge difference (+100 vs. + 200) shows a fundamental flaw in the new formula, that I don’t think was in the old.
  16. Mork Corporal

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    @Perl Fisher: Strange what you are reporting about the rating drop if your Berserker isn´t available for a battle.
    If e.g. my Captain is injured and not available for battle, my power rating stays the same. I have to remove his weapon and e.g. his war dog to cause a drop of the power rating to compensate his non-attendance. :confused:
  17. Kendofarfar Private

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    People do that?
    Huh, and here I was thinking the drop in rating was automatic. Because why wouldn't it :/
  18. Perl Fisher Private

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    No, although your listed rating stays the same, when a warrior is taking a sick day, the rating of the adversaries you are matched with in PvE automatically drops. That way you get easier fights, when you are playing with less warriors.

    That was why I called it “matched rating”:
    But I guess I could / should have explained the concept.

    It is in fact automatic.
  19. Mork Corporal

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    Ah, maybe that´s the theory.
    In practice I am facing the following situation at the moment:
    - Since the power rating of my warband is 741 I have access to the New Area (900) with the Warband Skaven I Sorci Verdi (900).
    - Now one of my marksmen was wounded and is not available for the next two battles.
    - But still I have access to the New Area (900) and still I have to face "Skaven I Sorci Verdi".
    - If I remove his Elven Bow, the power rating is reduced to 714 and the New Area (900) is closed.
    Due to your explanation, shouldn´t the New Area (900) be closed anyway because of the injured marksmen?

    How do you know about the matched rating drop of ~450 without your Berserker? Is it a guess or do you have access to a special matched rating table?
  20. Mork Corporal

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    Is there still going on any fine-tuning?
    After the correction with 1.12.6 my rating reduced to 741 and rosed to 745 after healing my marksmen who had a hand-wound with - 5 Weapons kill. I never observed any rating change due to injuries but that might be the reason.
    Then my halfling learned 3 attacks with the sling but the rating didn't change.
    This morning the rating is 759 without having done any further changes... :oops:

    @Perl Fisher: During the injury of my marksman the description of the New Area (900) said "XP Survival Bonus: 1" and "Reduced Injury Chance".
    After healing him, the description changed, leaving only the Survival Bonus and no Reduced Injury Chance anymore. So that indicates what you said, that a matched rating takes injuries into account!
    Was curious about spending that fate point but it revealed another mystery of Mordheim! :rolleyes:
    Perl Fisher likes this.

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