Reiklanders - How are you playing them since they lost speed skills?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Double Misfire, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. Double Misfire Private

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    I returned to the Reiklander warband I've been playing since launch (the Bögenhafen Bushwhackers for anyone who's had the pleasure of slaughtering them) today for the first time since they had their speed skills taken away, and have no idea how to build or play them anymore.

    Speed skills are so essential to Warriors (Sprint, Quick Recovery, Dodge and Hidden in Shadows) and sniper Marksmen (Ambush and Dodge + Hidden in Shadows too), that it's pretty safe to say that Reiklanders have fallen from their former perch to easily being the "worst" of the three human mercenary warbands - Marienburgers are fine as strength skills are suprisingly non essential for a melee fighter and even if you're of the opinion that they are you can just load up on Ogres and Pit Fighters; Middenheimers will eventually get a ranged hired sword I'm sure, but for now can just be utterly terrifying roving mobs of eight dudes with Comet Mauls.

    I've got no problem with Reiklanders being at the bottom of the pile, but have grown attached to my warband and would like to continue using them, and would welcome advice on how to get the most out of them. I've tried pistoliers as the mainstay of a melee warband today, but have found that they're too slow/vulnerable to range without Sprint and Hidden in Shadows or any ranged support, and am going to have a go at leveling up a trio of Repeater Handgunners (with the upcomming ballistic skill boosting Thunderer Hats, Repeater Handguns look like a solid option, and fire enough that they shouldn't need post nerf Ambush) to support my remaining pair of (slow moving) pistoliers alongside a Pit Fighter, Warlock and speedy spellcasting Captain.


    Have you guys had any joy with Reiklanders sans speed skills? What are your builds/tactics?
  2. FlaminGallahs2089 Corporal

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    Even though I havent used them plenty since the update (I was never that into reiklanders and waiting till I got cash to spare for witch hunters),
    I found the warbands I always ran for them are reasonably effective still (I never really relied on initiative but their ability to be hybrids)
    A brash Range heavy warband I find effective...
    They shoot from range, which weaknens the enemy, whilst I have my captain and pitfight hide behind a wall (even when seen they cant be shot)
    My range being solid at melee allows them to hold their own against middenheimers in combat, but often hold their own in skirmishes against marienburgers to.
    I always just try to pick my matchups now though, pick the best part of the map to allow a death zone of sorts, but limit the range fire my guys can take.
    (My captain is a pistolier without magic yet)
    Though I am stuck around a 5 man warband, and it still feels majorly limited in that Iwas more range, but I know a age would be a great addition, yet also need more melee as in the lower levels my range units still only have 5 wounds (I focused on range skills first) so they squishy...
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  3. Trapsinger Major

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    So I don't play Reiklanders, cause bad memories from tabletop of one of my friends and his all crossbow marksmen warband, but...

    I'm not sure why you keep saying the pistoliers are slow for the Reiklanders, Armor Training, and Sprint should even out in most suits of weight 2 or 3 armor, so the Marienburgers should be moving exactly the same speed as you, they've never had the armor training. Only the Middenheimers should be faster, as they are the only band that gets both on their warriors. If you need a melee fighter with both, you can also get the Pit Fighter too the same way the Marienburgers can, and he should be just as good in melee as a middenheimer, but level up much faster. Also you can get armor training immediately on all your warriors, and sprint requires Initiative 40 first, so you should be moving faster than Marienburg at low levels, and evening out as you level up.

    You should also be taking 10% less damage than the Marienburgers, since you can get Resilience and they can't, and that works in Melee as well as at range, unlike Dodge, so while it is slightly less effective than dodge at range, you should do better in melee, and be more well rounded. If you still feel like you are getting shot a lot, take the time to put Elven Cloaks on everyone if you haven't yet, they help a lot. You can also get the other strength bonuses like +10 strength, +10 weapon skill in cover, and +15 weapon skill on the charge, so you should be crushing marienburg in melee. It's probably worth getting points in Initiative anyway, even though you can't get the other skills, because the free melee hits from Speed skills only work if their Initiative is higher than yours. A big part of the problem you are having with Hiding isn't necessarily the loss of the skill, but the fact that everyone has lanterns now, which were introduced at the same time.

    As far the repeater handgun, I personally find that the Hochland Longrifle is much better. I find that the accuracy more than makes up for the extra shot, and it allows you to lay down cover fire and take control of big open areas much more effectively when you need to cross them. Although that's my experience with Marienburg, so take that as you will, but it's something Middenheim can't do at all. So take the time to shoot them a lot before you try to melee them. Especially since you can get the Pit Fighter to match their melee skills, and they have absolutely zero options to improve their ability to shoot at you.

    So, yes, the Reiklanders are harder to play now, and they should be, cause they were way overpowered before when they were the best at everything. But I don't think they are "the worst" now I think they come out pretty even with Marienburg and Middenheim. Middenheim should be best in melee, I think Reik comes out balanced between the two, and Marienburg is probably the best shooters now.

    Beyond that, all I can really suggest is learn the maps really well, and make use of terrain to block line of sight. Also stack up on Defense, Reiklanders cap out at 85 defense, or 100 with mandrake root. It's really hard to hurt someone if they automatically pass all their armor checks, especially at range since there are no throwing hammers.
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  4. Trapsinger Major

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    Addendum: Your Rating might be the problem also, get rid of all two handed weapons, and longrifles until you have your defense skills up and armor on. Elven Bows and Skull Hammers all the way.
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  5. Double Misfire Private

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    Apologies Trapsinger, I was under the impression that Marienburgers could take Armour Training in the same way that Pit Fighters and Freelance Knights can train in various missile weapons without access to various shooting skills. :(

    I agree that without hired swords the three mercenary warbands would be relatively balanced, but with hired swords in play Marienburgers are looking at ranged guys with ranged 2/2 skill trees and melee guys in the form of Pit fighters with 3/3 melee skill trees (as well as Ogres who's improved stats effectively count as an extra skill tree); while Reiklanders are stuck with ranged guys with only 1/2 skill trees and melee with 2/3, and even if a fabled ranged hired sword were to be introduced (Halfling Scout please devs! :D), they'd still be stuck with three warband members "missing" a skill tree at top levels.

    I can't stress enough that I'm not here to "power game", I'm just looking for new and enjoyable ways to play after setting up ambushes with Hochlands has fallen by the wayside.
  6. Trapsinger Major

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    Well the ambushes are still possible if you switch to Marienburg, so if that's the style you have fun with you might consider it. But I suspect you will find that they are a bit lacking in melee if you are used to doing both. Being 10 points behind in defense, and no way to boost your weaponskill with cover or charging hurts a lot. It sounds like you are really attached to the speed skills though, so it might be a good choice for you.

    I'm not sure I'm with you on the logic that they could be balanced without hired swords, and then unbalanced when you add the same hired swords to each of them. They do really need a combat/shooting/speed hired sword though, and I expect it will be the Elf Ranger instead of the halfling. I guess we'll see!

    If you haven't bought the Marienburgers yet, and you want to play them, I'd recommend waiting until after the next update, as they are making it possible to buy fate with gold.
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  7. Shangular Major

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    As some wise person (so couldn’t be me) once posted in an older thread, to be competitive just add ogres :) My Reiklanders have 3 and do well with marksmen providing cover fire and then the ogres and my captain charging in.

    I assume you’re most asking about pvp since pve tactics against AI are roughly the same for all warband (stay out of charge range, let AI move first and fun at you, then charge). Also I believe you don’t want to use multiple ogres. So simply adding to what has been said above,

    1). play to the objective - have your marksmen hidden ready to shoot anyone moving to objective circle and have captain and melee warriors close by to attack last rounds

    2). Arm all of your warriors with gromil armor, visored helmet, sniper rifle and skull hammer. Make sure your opponent doesn’t know which is which. This allows your melee warrior to also be able to shoot and let the enemy come to you as much as possible and possibly surprise an opponent when he thinks he is attacking a weak melee marksmen.

    3). Get a high level pit fighter who can hide and has high initiative to carry a morr lantern. Try to have this guy activate before your marksmen, sneak into forward positions and reveal enemies for marksmen to shoot.

    4). Get high initiaitve for marksmen so they can pass turn and hide, shoot, and then hide again without being able to get shot at back. Obviously this doesn’t work if opponents marksmen have higher initiative.

    The most important thing is to have fun win or lose. Unfortunately if you want to use a pure Reikland warband you’ll always be at a disadvantage against opponents you have ogres and pit fighters.

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