Repeater handgun - worth it?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Marquand, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. Marquand Major

    Message Count:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Well, is it? I'm bored to death with long rifle sniping and it's time for some changes. I'm thinking about pistolier or repeater hanguner.

    My marksmen has all shooting skills, most speed, 55defence and 14 wounds. With repeater he will be closer to the front lines but is the risk (and money) worth taking? With eagle eyes it's 30 range, 60 BS three shots that ignore cover. Sounds quite nice in theory but what about practice? Do you have any experience with this weapon?

    I have ~750 gc and can afford:
    1) equipping him with repeater
    2) equpping my pistolier with scoped long rifle
    3)OR saving some more money and then -> gromril armour.
    OverWatch likes this.
  2. Eizo Private

    Message Count:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    IMHO it's not worth it. You get one more shot at close range, sure. But a lot of good opportunities to shoot are missed, because of the short max range. I regret buying one repeater handgun for one of my marksman instead of waiting for a(nother) longrifle to appear in the shop.

    Almost forgot, sometimes you won't even get to shoot three times with the repeater, because of the 5% drop in accuracy after each shot. Or the final shot gets such a low chance to hit that it's extreme luck if it hits anything.
    Marquand likes this.
  3. Marquand Major

    Message Count:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Thanks for conifirming my suspicions. I forgot about third shot being -15% as well. Adding to that -10% for target selection it's indeed not worth it.

    Long rifles then...
  4. Eizo Private

    Message Count:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    If it had the option to fire all bullets in one blast, with the accuracy as that of the first shot, then it might have been worth it, even with a possible overkill.
    Marquand likes this.
  5. Marquand Major

    Message Count:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    31
    I like this idea! Even at half range this would certainly make RH more usefull than it is now.
  6. JustinS Private

    Message Count:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    3
    The repeater is definitely not worth . I ran a Marienburg gang with 3 LongRifles. I tried the repeater with one of them out of boredom. I had to conclude after many battles it just doesn't work as well as the long rifle in a direct comparison.

    With shooting, having the longest range is king. Hiding just ins't effective enough to stop it in this game.
  7. Overwatch Community Manager

    Message Count:
    888
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Interesting idea...
    Marquand likes this.
  8. Chaosticket Major

    Message Count:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    31
    The not-so-basic Hochland Long Rifle is overall the top tier ranged weapon.

    1 The Handgun isnt that good and generally is better passed over for the Elven Longbow which is much more accurate.
    2 Repeater Handgun, just no. Its ridiculously expensive with low accuracy.
    3 Scoped Rifle, skip. Its a lot more rare than the regular Hochland Long Rifle and about 40-50% more expensive. Its pointless as its unique ability is just Trick SHooter, which you should already have before your character gets to level 10.
    4 Eleven Longbow is quite good, its just not the Hochland Long Rifle. Its much cheaper so its possible to have your entire warband with Elven Longbows while gathering the gold for Long Rifles.
  9. Marquand Major

    Message Count:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Scoped Rifles all the way. Why taking two additional skills (crossbow training, trick shooter) when you can spend those points on other better skills? Eventually you'll get money to buy wht you like.
  10. Chaosticket Major

    Message Count:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    31
    SIgh, okay.

    #1 a crossbow costs 25-30 gold. So its cheap enough to give to your entire warband and its an upgrade in damage over the Longbow.

    #2 Trick Shooter is the #1 upgrade goal for any character using ranged attacks. It works on ANY ranged weapon. So its useful from as soon as you get it and stays useful on every weapon, up to and including Longbow, Crossbow, Handgun, Elven Longbow, Hochland Long Rifle, and so on.

    #3 The scope Long Rifle is so rare and expensive that you will probably already have the skill before you can find the rifle and/or have enough gold to actually buy it. Even if you set it as a goal the regualr Hochland Long Rifle is a lot cheaper and easier to find.

    But hey if you can get the enormous amount of gold necessary to purchase the Scope Rifle when it appears it would be a good choice. If I remember Marquand you have a one-person warband so you dont have items inflating in cost. For me a Scoped Rifle cost about 800g each. a 250gold costs difference is massive in equipping a 7-person warband.
  11. Marquand Major

    Message Count:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Your place on the leaderboard? :) I'm 8th, so you can say I'm quite an experienced player.

    #1 So what? The higher you get the rarer crossbows, longbows or anything not-blackpowder is. For a reason. If you feel like crossbow is worth investing, well, you're free to do so but sooner or later it will be too weak. Long term planning.
    Again, skills are more difficult to get than money. Besides I think that with multiplayer all shooting only warbands will be in decline.

    #2 Not true at all. BS upgrades are #1 on marksmen advances list. Without high BS you can have all shooting skills and be useless for the sole fact that you cannot hit the enemy.

    #3 Depends on gold managemnt and warband size. It's possible to get scoped rifle earlier and less than 700gc. You just need to plan your spendings rationally.
    A tip: it's better to spend most battles without armour or with shitty longbow (in case of marksmen) than to buy stopgap items like jack o plates, handgun or, Sigmar forbid, cuirass etc Of course you have to play accordingly being more careful and sneaky. By waiting till you get the best, expensive item you can get, you're actually saving money and have weapon/armour that will stay with you till the end. And then you move to the other warband member and replace his stuff etc.

    You're mistaken, I have a 7 member warband. :)
  12. Chaosticket Major

    Message Count:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Okay if you can start with Scoped Rifles, FINE.
    I had work a long time to upgrade my characters and Trick SHooter is a must-have skill. It gives either a +10 +30 bonus(or really removed the penalty) for shooting at targets in cover, which is almost always.

    Oh its so hard to put 1 level into Crossbow Training an and give your entire warband crossbows and Trick Shooter. Youll reach that far before you can purchase a Scoped Long Rifle.. Theres little reason not to buy them, unless you want to max out Longbow Mastery and pick an Elven Longbow, and then youll still want Trick Shooter so Crossbow Training it is. Trick Shooter is is barely even optional, and because of that Crossbow Training is also necessary just because its a requirement. Oh and its a gag on William Tell.

    Ballistic skill upgrades are a joke. Average increase is +5%. Want to know what the penalties for range are? According to the moderators its -4% per square. Eagle Eye is a better skill than upgrading your ballistic skill.

    The skills increases are so different from Mordheim is staggering. a +1(0) to a stat in Mordheim is a +16% flat rate. In Warband SKirmish +5% is nothing.
  13. Marquand Major

    Message Count:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    31
    And yet I'm still 8th lol. 7th in fact.
    Making all shooting warband is just a bad idea. It's what I wrote in my previous post. Long term planning. If you want to stick with all crossbows warband - FINE. But you write numerous posts of how shooting is inferior to close combat. Where's logic in that? I've tried many ways of advancing a marksmen and yes, I tried trick shooter first. It didn't work. And you 're still emphasizing how crossbows are good. So how come, that in later stages NO ONE uses crossbow? Answear: because long rifles are superior in every way. You either accept that, grit your teeth and save money for them or you invest skills in crossbows which at some point will be insufficient to win the battles.
    And no, upgrading BS is better for every future or present weapon. And it's not true that enemies ale aways in cover. Especially with a target selection mechanics when you can pick your target.
  14. Chaosticket Major

    Message Count:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Okay this is going to be back and forth. I could just say we both have merits but I know we'll just argue.

    Bow Training is a default skill for Marksmen and Captains. I dont see much use to getting Bow Mastery ever unless you plan to stick to Elven Longbows for a very long time. In that case its better to pick Ballistic Skill Increase as a long-term investment(5% for just bows VS 5% for every ranged weapon).

    Crossbows are a relatively cheap upgrade and overall better than Longbows. You can avoid buying them but Trick Shooter is too important so 1 skill into Crossbow Training is a small fee. Sure it would be nice if you could skip wasting a skill that as crossbows ARE lower-middle tier.

    Blackpowder weapons are middle-high tier. It takes at least Blackpowder Training/Mastery and Hunter to even make it worthwhile to have blackpowder weapons equipped. Handgun is more or less a waste just because it doesnt have enough accuracy/range to hit things and is still pretty expensive.
    =================================
    You can skip certain skills and not buy weapons but wow is it a pain to stick to using Longbows and without Trick Shooter chances of hitting can be in the single digits. I skipped Elven Longbows and Handguns because their cost was so high and I needed Hochland Long Rifles ASAP.

    So I went the long way from bottom to top, but I had Quick Shot and Trick Shooter on everyone. It took a long time until I had enough to buy Hochland Long Rifles.

    Note, shooting is less effective than melee because of all the upgrades that break the game. SHooting critical chance is fixed at 15%. Melee can be 50% critical with an Ostland Greataxe and Strike to Injure. Ranged attacks at 40 strength at most. Melee can get 70-90 strength from skills and equipment. Ranged attacks are maximum 3 with certain weapons and Quick SHot. Melee can get 6 by having Frenzy.

    Tactically having 14 ranged attacks per turn will still do alot even if every melee character is a superhuman that can take down Archaon (look him up).
  15. ScubaSteve Major

    Message Count:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Don't you guys think that all of this makes Marksmen a little too overpowered after all by the time a warband can afford its 2nd long rifle close combat is a distant memory. Even warriors in Gromril will not be able to stand up to multiple rapid firing long range attacks.

    They won't stand a chance.
  16. Chaosticket Major

    Message Count:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Yes and no. Early on Ranged attacks are deadly because 1-3 damage to characters with 3-5 hit points is alot of damage. In that instances hit chance is the deciding factor so cover is MASSIVELY important. Getting Trick Shooter solves that problem and instead its about having armor.

    Freelancers start with armor either at 45% or 58% as well as upgrade hit points so they break the early-mid game by just ruining ranged combat. Then things turn around as there are multiple defensive upgrades for non-Freelancers. Upgrading your Wounds 3 times gives you anywhere between 9 and 17 hit points. Ranged weapons only improve by 1 point of maximum damage but character durability has multiplied. By then the whole setup changes to having multiple characters focusing firing until single enemies go down because you have to.

    Just armor and defense go through the roof as every character gets 30-70% chances to take 0 damage from every attack. Anyone who doesnt is easily taken down while trying to get into melee.

    Close Combat is far from a distant memory as you should be making balanced decisions to have upgrades to protect you. Sprint increases you movement, Armor Training removes the movement penalty for armor almost completely, Dodge give s heavy penalty to any ranged attacks targeting you.

    In the end Melee becomes complete broken because they the attacks are extremely damaging and scale up way higher than ranged combat. The right skills solve basically all the problems with melee combat aside from fighting another, better melee character. You can make yourself much, much tougher, faster, stealthy, and capable of one-hit-kills. Ranged attacks by comparison are so pitiful in damage later and Its actually reaching Long Rifles that ranged combat becomes useful again. That is if you have your entire warband shooting as often and as far as possible. Ranged combat becomes much less about killing and more about chipping away at damage until someone routes.

    Trying to hybridize characters gets a very poor result. I have never seen an effective pistol character. Repeater Handguns are far less useful than Long Rifles as they are shooting at twice the maximum range and more than twice the change to hit at the same ranges.

Share This Page