Scenarios Broken. Please Fix.

Discussion in 'Bugs / Suggestions / Support' started by Jesse Shaffer, May 14, 2020.

  1. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    In the image below, the halfling and other slayer have already moved and I have collected zero shards. Most veteran Treasure Hunter players will immediately recognize this situation as probably unwinnable. The closest dwarf is 4 to 5 turns away from the nearest shard. I wouldn't know exactly because I lost on turn 3.

    Many of the shard hunt scenarios are broken for Treasure Hunters because their nearest shard is up to 4 turns closer to their opponents. For these missions, please either remove them from the Treasure Hunter experience or reposition the nearest shard to a distance accessible to characters with 3 movement in 3 turns or less. Your players will thank you.

    Treasur Hunt.jpg
  2. CzaRus Major

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    Solution: hire a walock.
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  3. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    Respectfully, no it isn’t. I specifically dismissed two warlocks from that same warband a week or so ago because I wanted more melee focused dwarves. In that time, I’ve won plenty of wyrdstone hunts. I just want them to either fix or remove the total steaming dog turds that make player success physically impossible. It’s a reasonable expectation from a paying customer.
  4. Rexall Private

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    I never lose a wyrdstone hunt battle and I have team of Treasure hunters dwarfs with 1 warlock, it's not really a problem.
  5. Shangular Brigadier

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    Unfortunately, that what makes the Flight spell so good. Any warband without one will be at a disadvantage in this and the treasure hunt scenario. I get that you want to make Dwarves feel like Dwarves. But players who also want to have an all Sister warband or all Witchhunter warband will run into the same problem. Legendary may have intentionally designed this to promote hired swords.

    But looking at your warband, deciding to be all melee and moving 3/3 will already put you at a disadvantage regardless of where the shards are located. For my dwarves, I have 3 gunners which works well in these scenarios as they can pretty much stun a warlock that just flies to grab a shard. I admit I do have a warlock, but even if I didn't I'd replace the warlock with another dwarf armed with a gun to further help in these scenarios. Guns are very much in line with dwarven lore.
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  6. Algirdas25 Major

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    solution , supressing fire , ememies can get wyrdstones if they are busy dieing
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  7. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    While all the solutions offered so far do work, none of them are actually necessary. For more than half of all shard missions, none of you actually need a warlock or shooting skills. All you have to do is grab the first shard, which is usually between 1 and 2 turns away, because it won’t be long before the enemy brings the rest to you like some kind of shard delivery service. As long as you’re careful about which enemies you kill, you’ll normally be able to collect most shards before they flee.

    Getting them all is a bit less common though which is fine because it’s a natural outcome of this playstyle. Low initiative and slow movement are innate constraints of dwarves which force you to play this way but they do not force you to lose. The 20% to 30% of missions where shards are placed obscenely far away can easily be cut out. It doesn’t matter if those shards were placed programmatically or by hand; this is not the sort of task professional programmers struggle with.

    Technically, leaving them in is the most abusive and short-sighted form of pay-to-win. Normally, pay-to-win schemes give paying players an advantage over free players. In this scenario, it forces failure on paying customers (Treasure Hunter players) thereby strong-arming them into paying even more on a hired sword just to win the missions that free players can already win. Oversight or not, it’s lazy, predatory, a stupid business model, and crap game design.
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  8. CzaRus Major

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    I also think that low I = lose most of the time, that's why I will never hire models with less then thier max I level and why I will probably never buy dwarves, because they are stupidly slow in terms of I, and in PVP anyone with merc warband and right skill will beat Dwarves in most scenarios, just because of spells and movement advantage. Picture this: Dwarf defending a position, placing his units to good firing positions and staying in cover/forming a shield wall and what not. My captain runs from behind the corner, hits em 3-4 times with a hammer/maul and flies away with spell (with no need to skip turns) behind the corner again, thus dealing damage while recieving none. That means dwarf is forced to:
    a)follow me = break formation/abandon position of defence.
    b) hold his ground/slowly advance while recieving damage = pray to RNG that I will not do enough damage before round 10 or before he spots rest of my units (most of which have movement 4/4 at least, outrunning dwarves yet again).
    c) hiding himself and playing the leadership game, where dwarves have certain advantage, but will start way earlier due to damage taken, this is their best chance so far.
    d) give up and cry, force - quitting the game.

    Dwarves seem like pain in the butt to play as to me, because you rely so much on hired swords for movement, and those hired swords will eventually fall to enemy warband. Movement 3/3 (laughable and sad at best) combined with stupidly low I makes for a really bad time playing the band against players imo. Against bot, all tactics work because bot always works the same, players do not. How would *YOU* design dwarves, then? I would certainly not make their I so low, Ogres should have low I as dwarves have now, I would make dwarf I range 25-35 and Ogre I range 15-25, balancing out strong ogre and considerably weak dwarves.

    Warlocks are free to hire btw, 1000 gold is a small price to pay, considering they already start with the gear they need (gear price range +/-600 gold).
  9. Algirdas25 Major

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    one point starting stats and max stats are trasfered(kinda) from orginal tt Mordheim dwarf max I is 5 (so in game we have max 55 ) , ogre max I is 6 so max 65 , but heare is suprise halfling max I in tt is 9(same as vamp , or elf) in game 75 , could our litlle cooks get +20 Initiative ?
  10. Shangular Brigadier

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    I can see your perspective on the pay model. However, I don't necessarily agree that purchasing any warband is pay to win. The pay to win aspect would be the hired swords (like hiring 4 ogres or 4 elves with money vs farming fate to get them) or purchasing gold with real money to level up. Neither are necessary to be competitive. Purchasing one hired sword is very affordable for many people and I'm easily accessible with farming gold.

    Imo, this game has one of the best pay models in all the mobile games I've played. It doesn't cost a lot to create a competitive warband in PvP and you can actually spend no money if you're willing to put in the hours to endless grind. There are no items that give a player an advantage to over others that are only purchasable with real money. In the end a person that is f2p can end up in the same spot as a person who is p2w, just takes longer. There are some mobile games where that is not possible. Plus there is to no stupid fatigue system that many mobile games have today either (if they ever introduce that, I'll quit the game as I've quit every game that has such as system).

    The way I see dwarves, they aren't an overpowered or dominating warband. That said, the fun for me is the challenge of winning with such a warband. I do a lot of PvP with mine and I win most of the matches by playing to the objective.

    I will admit that the treasure hunts do require a warlock to better ensure success (but not guarantee). But having the Flight spell for this advantage is not warband specific (i.e. Mercenaries and Undead use warlocks for this advantage, so why not dwarves?) But let's say that hiredswords are removed from the game. The dwarves with 3-4 gunners can have a chance to still win the treasure hunt, equal to witchhunters and sisters, some disavatange against mercs w/ wizard captain or possessed, and some disadvantage against skaven (but other warbands will face this same disadvantage against skaven).
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  11. Enajien Corporal

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    I agree with CzaRus. Dwarves in pvp should just always lose without a full 4 hired swords. Dwarves are bad on their own. The move penalty and I penalty is just too harsh. In TT they worked because they were massively defensive, you couldn't delay, and you could block marching. When models went down to 4 or 3 speed it's just not as big a difference as 8 vs 6. Also with T5, 2+ armour save, and mostly immune to stun, dwarves ignored ranged. They were able to just walk the most direct route to objectives while other armies needed to do a ton of stealth which slowed them down.
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  12. Shangular Brigadier

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    I understand the limitation with pure dwarves but saying that a dwarves are bad because they need hired swords isn’t a fair assessment. You could then say the same with Undead who will completely suck without a vampire, of Witchhunters without any warrior priest, elf or ogre. Or mercenaries without any hired swords. What are Reiklanders or Marienburg without ogres? If there were no hired swords, undead would be the worst warband. Skaven are probably the least dependent on hired swords.

    My dwarves pvp just fine with just 2 hired swords and win most pvp matches. The ogre I have is really superfluous as he hardly makes any difference in the battles. I’m thinking of dropping him and adding another dwarf.
  13. Enajien Corporal

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    You can't compare dwarves to armies with specific hired swords like witch hunters and undead. They are army specific models just restricted by reducing your hired sword pool. Undead with only vampires, Witch hunters with only warrior priests, Only Possessed, only skaven, only sisters, and only reiklanders would all dominate only dwarfs. In fact every other warband is competitive and complete with only it's captain, henchment and warband specific single hired sword (vampire, warrior priest, auger). Sure hiredswords are nice and help everyone but dwarves. Dwarves require them.
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  14. Shangular Brigadier

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    I see your point about warband specific hired swords. Ok. But don't agree that pure warbands would dominate dwarves based on the pvp experience I've had with them. Treasure hunt scenario aside, on the capture the circle scenarios, I just keep my warlock hidden somewhere and my dwarves do all the work. They've been able to successfully beat possessed, sisters, reiklanders, vampires and other opponents they've faced. Of course they require a different tactic, but different doesn't necessarily mean bad.
  15. Shangular Brigadier

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    Ok, I see your point about warband specific hired swords. But don't agree that pure warbands would dominate dwarves based on the pvp experience I've had with them. Treasure hunt scenario aside, on the capture the circle scenarios, I just keep my warlock hidden somewhere and my dwarves do all the work. They've been able to successfully beat possessed, sisters, reiklanders, vampires and other opponents they've faced. Of course they require a different tactic, but different doesn't necessarily mean bad. I'd agree that I don't recommend dwarves for someone just beginning Mordheim mobile.
  16. Shangular Brigadier

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    One question to the developers is: Are the Dwarves complete as is or do you plan to release a Dwarven Engineer? From playing this game for about 2-3 years, we've seen that when a new warband is released, a specific hired sword that complements the warband filling a needed gap, isn't released until a month or so later.

    For example

    Undead: Vampires released later which gives this a strong close combat warrior making it a competitive warband
    WitchHunters: The warrior priest is added giving it stronger tactical options
    Sisters: Augur added to add cleavage
    Possessed: Beastmen added to add armor piercing attacks (comet mauls)
    Dwarves: Engineer with skills that give them for example +10 additional damage with blackpowder (Str 60 total), +10 to hit with any blackpowder weapon, +1 extra shot with black powder weapon, Ambush skill would round out the dwarves and make them more beginner friendly and thus boost sales. IMO, the key to a good dwarf warband today is a balanced guns and close combat. Positioning becomes even more important because of the 3/3 movement. But an engineer would allow this tactic to be more forgiving. This would also make them less dependent on a Warlock for those Treasure hunt scenarios (although that disadvantage is the same for like Sisters who don't have access to a warlock or strong shooting skills too, i.e. not Dwarf specific)
  17. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    I only meant pay-to-win in the statistical sense since sales are encouraged by duress. Aside from this one sticking point, dwarves are great.

    I agree that this game has a great pay model. People and organizations can make a mistake but that doesn’t mean that they are a mistake themselves. By the same token, I don’t think the people at legendary are remotely predatory or foolish. While the person who keeps screwing up the hats may need a little polish ;), I think everyone else is awesome. I also understand that time and money are powerful constraints but allowing a large number of shard hunt missions to remain broken clearly isn’t exemplary of a good work ethic, a friendly regard for players, business acumen, or thoughtful design.

    Interestingly, they could fix more than 90% of the broken shard hunt scenarios just by changing pickaxes so that they allow infiltration on both turns 1 and 2.
  18. Cyberaddict Major

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    Yeah. People at LG are such perverts! :p

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