Skaven Leadership

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Marquand, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Marquand Major

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    I played more than 50 games (rating 245) now and here is what I think.
    Skaven are shagged when it comes to leadership. They basically become unplayable in certain circumstances.
    1. Shooting - skaven run away half of the time they got shot.

    2. Fear. As expected before even playing skaven this is not even funny.

    I played versus Middenheim with 4 guys. Since they started in two locations (2x2men) I baited them with skavens in open sight to split further. So, 2 of them went left, two of them went right. 2 guys on the right were charged and stunned/killed in 2 turns. Left side skven were hiding so I could gang up on remaining 2 Middenheimers with my entire warband. After two turns It was a time and opportunity to charge with all my 6 members. So it started. ALL of them failed their fear test because these 2 remaining guys hd fear. They didn't charge since they had no range but moved very close. Next turn I repeated the procedure and ... another 6 f....ng fear tests failed. Middenheimers charged and with great weapons and two attacks each killed/stunned 2 members of my warband (btw if you think high parry chance and no armour can save you, think again). I was about to quit but thought "hey, I have some fate points left so I can heal/resurrect them and if they got robed I got plenty of spares". So I ordered my skaven to charged again - 3. fear. tests. failed. Only assassin managed to charge but failed all his hit rolls because "scared".

    Skaven are crippled from the start with low leadership (and I don't care it's from the tabletop this game plays by different rules), have NO access to S skills (even though in tabletop they had) so cannot take fearsome, and bugmans XXXXX is not a common item that you can buy at any quantity and any time you like.

    I'd like to hear your thoughts folks.
  2. Salj Major

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    I just clump everyone together in cover. It's not perfect but it seems to work okay most of the time. I'd agree though the range is a pain I'd love to see more stealth range for the skaven like the blowpipe or sling or something
  3. Marquand Major

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    er....you're sure it's right thread? :)
  4. Chaosticket Major

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    In the original Mordheim Fear was useful but not great. Most characters had about a 50% chance of passing, and even if you dont you have an entire team of 10-20 people so one fail isnt the end. It only worked if the Fear-causing character charged or was charged so locking them into combat removed the effect until another charge takes place.

    I think skaven are being pushed to waste levels and skill points putting it into Leadership increases or picking Leadership boosting hats(which often suck at Defense). Thats assuming they can actually buy the hats.

    Fear is rare because it its high requirements. Its impossible for some character to ever have it through bad starting statistics and/or bad roll when picking Strength Increases. It has been improved by happening frequently instead of only on charges. When you do have fear its pretty powerful and at some point Fear becomes a metagaming tier that every melee character has to have for offensive or defensive purposes.

    Shooting causes hidden leadership rolls often, but you wont notice them unless you fail. Skaven would fail checks a lot more often.

    It is/would be very easy to pin down skaven just by shooting them or having fear. Now thats also true from the original SKaven Warband. They had more members so being alone was basically impossible, and the entire warband would be armed with 18-range slings so out-shooting them has nearly impossible.
  5. Salj Major

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    Yea I just kinda whent off on a tangent, I don't usually fail leadership test cuz I don't isolate my guys unless they frenzy.
  6. Marquand Major

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    Well, I'm sure you played with skaven versus fear causing opponents here. One heavy armoured, strong opponent can basically reliably chew through half/entire (depending on a size) skaven warband without being hit back or talkin extremely little damage. Fear as it is must go. This topic was often talked over even before skaven were released. Now it is paramount to fix that issue.
  7. Chaosticket Major

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    Thats less of a skaven problem and more the metagame. Melee characters would have zero use for putting in any shooting skills(which is padded like crazy) so that means they would have many strength, hit point, weapon skill, and attack increases.

    You can take a human Warrior with average(30) stats and max out attacks by level 7. Then get all the strength, wounds, and Fearsome by 15. Reverse the order and get Fearsome before level 10.

    Skaven players are facing an uphill battle as they are fighting more developed teams both in terms of testing and player experience.

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