Slayers: Is Berserker Worth It?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Jesse Shaffer, May 14, 2020.

  1. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    I'm running an all melee dwarf warband with a rating of 5479. I gave my level 31 slayer the Berserker skill today and it increased my warband rating by 1209 points. The result: thanks to his now diminished weapon skill, it appears that he cannot kill in 8 hits what he could once kill in 4. Before this, my slayer was great. He was almost never taken out of action, ate ogres for breakfast, and the warband was neigh unbeatable. Now, he's taken out of action immediately in every battle and the entire warband is inevitably slaughtered to the last man if I don't flee. It is not fun and I'm debating permanently leaving the game.

    My warband has 3 comparative babies with one being a second (level 7) slayer. That level 7 won't be able to pull his weight for a while longer so maybe things will eventually get better but I have my doubts. As near as I can tell, if you want to take a winning dwarven warband and turn it into something so hateable that you want your money back, just add berserker to your slayer.

    Has anyone else used this skill and had better results?
  2. CzaRus Major

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    Short answer: *VERY* situational.
    Long answer: In cases whern you charge into cover if you have Pit Fighter skill as well or just have Unstoppable charge it seems worth it. But the astronomical increase of rating per one berserker will exponentially grow with more berserkers so high that you will lose your sanity over it. My advice is dismiss that fella and hire a new one, and never ever touch berserker skill again. WS does not have that much impact on on rating, unlike attacks which can mean your doom. It's a pitty, but needed to solve your problem.
    I have tried it myself on multiple occssions with middenheim shield wall or as marienburg marksmen guards, which worked better, but still could drive the rating really high. DO NOT TOUCH IT.
  3. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    Unfortunately, he’s already got pit fighter and unstoppable charge. Most of the time now, he dies before he even gets a chance to charge. Even though I hated my previous experiences with slayers in other warbands types, I’ve honestly loved them until today as part of my melee dwarf team. But now that I know their best skill is their worst skill and, worse still, an outright warband suicide button that the devs clearly don’t care about fixing, I just hate slayers period. Its negligent to the point of being vulgar.

    The best fix for me then is to spend my time and money elsewhere.
  4. Shangular Brigadier

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    If you're WS is maxed, let's say 75, having a -10 penalty to 65 should still be very effective. 65 is equivalent to most warriors. You get 8 attacks with the slayer at Ws 65 (assuming attack skill is maxed and using dual weapon) which should be good enough to kill anything. Now the problem you may run into is if you're using gromil axes against high defense opponents, the -15 defense modifier is not that good. You could try arming him with a skull hammer and still get 6 attacks which could be more effective.

    But my thought on the slayer is that without a way to extend his movement on charging, this hired sword is useless. Which is a shame because I really like the slayer concept, being a fan after reading some of the Gotrek and Felix novels.
  5. Algirdas25 Major

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    it is worth ,, if you know what you are doing , if not , you just diging grave for your warband ,

    p.s hire slayers with 4 starting wound , you will thanks me later
  6. Jesse Shaffer Brigadier

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    Mathematically, it isn’t. The rating penalty is equivalent to adding approximately 2.5 level 30 dwarves causing the warband to be rated DOUBLE what it would be without him. CzaRus is right. Sure, it pays off intermittently but the enormity and frequency of mitigating circumstances combined with the insane ratings increase make it an empirically poor choice. It is manageable with the right playstyle and warband composition but it’s never actually worth it. It’s even more manageable bare fisted; even without unarmed master, they can punch most gromril clad warriors to death. While fun, the rating impact mars even this.

    This is especially true for relatively pure Treasure Hunter warbands because they have fewer skills and skill trees than the majority of their opponents and completely lack an innate magical unit. Because of this, the enormous rating penalty pushes them well outside the ratings range where they have relevant skills. The result being that they end up fighting warbands where every member has just as many or more points in attack skills and ballistic skills but also completely filled magic and/or speed skill trees. That’s only worth it on something like a vampire and a vampire a slayer is not.
    CzaRus likes this.
  7. CzaRus Major

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    No, do not. Algirdas says this because slayers get skill for +10 S against models with higher staring Wounds than Slayers, meaning in late game he would automatically have +10 S against everyone, but leaving your Slayer with 13+4 wounds instead of 14+5 wounds (you lose 2 hp) which is meh for *POTENTIAL* 1 damage point that you may not even use cuz you get shot for example. Hire max Wound models, more worth it, and you still get + 10 S against Ogers, Vampires and Possessed, which is fair enough. Most strenght skills are for later game anyway (ratings 2500-3000+).
  8. Algirdas25 Major

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    if you slayer get shot(bad spawn don't count) , you are doing somethink wrong
  9. CzaRus Major

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    Say a Slayer just slayed a middenheimer, then his turn ends, he is not in cover nor has enough I to retreat to cover - middenheimers elf/elves can gun him down in no time, especially with reduced wounds. It is 100% Wounds you always use or + 10 S that you rarely use. I go for the more secure method.
  10. Algirdas25 Major

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    either deal with shooters first , or make use of ruins , i yet to see a marksman who shot throght a hause or some types of wall etc. (but to do that you need to know the map you are plaing well , as some times there are hidden empty spaces where you can shoot throght)

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