Suggestion: Changes to Offhand equipment slot

A painful difference between Warband Skirmish and its source are how weapons are equipped.

Originally you could have any number of weapons represented in holsters. You were restricted by what you could use in any combat so you couldnt have 4 knives attacking with only 2 arms. You would have to switch between combats rounds, but that also meant weapons had tactical use. bring the right weapon for the right situation like a Sword for Parry to increase durability or a armor-piercing weapon.

Two-handed weapons didnt prevent usage of carrying additional weapons, especially ranged weapons. You could actually use a shield on your arm, though using a two-handed weapon meant you couldnt benefit from an off-hand weapon or shield in melee.

A one-handed melee weapon could be used in your off-hand for an extra attack. It didnt get 1-3 attacks for your character's Attack statistic times two, but having 2 melee weapons by itself would be an early advantage and allow combos as stated abive
===============
Right now things feel quite narrow. You have 3 equipment setups that you cannot alter mid-game. #1 two-handed weapon, #2 one-handed weapon and shield #3 one-handed melee and a ranged weapon.

I dont even have two-handed weapons because they completely prevent use of ranged weapons.
 

Overwatch

Community Manager
Staff member
A painful difference between Warband Skirmish and its source are how weapons are equipped...
There are many aspects of the game that we've altered in our game design. One of them being that you can't equip 2H weapons as well as something in your off-hand.

If you want to use a ranged weapon and a melee weapon at the same time, you're going to have to use a weapon that can be held in one hand, that's just the way it is. It's really down to you to decide what you want to focus on, whether that be parry stats or otherwise.

Skills allow you to build various different types of units, like a "hybrid" type unit like you've mentioned, for example, being able to use both a good melee weapon and good ranged weapon.

You have a limited amount of equipment slots to choose from, make the most out of them!
 
So two-handed being completely incompatible with ranged weapons isnt even open for discussion?

I think a walking armory like the Mordheim tabletop game would be a bit much. It was common to house rule things so you couldnt just stack up too many weapons.

I dont know how youre going to do things like the iconic Skaven Weeping Blades which are Dual-wielded Swords.
 

Overwatch

Community Manager
Staff member
So two-handed being completely incompatible with ranged weapons isnt even open for discussion?

I think a walking armory like the Mordheim tabletop game would be a bit much. It was common to house rule things so you couldnt just stack up too many weapons.

I dont know how youre going to do things like the iconic Skaven Weeping Blades which are Dual-wielded Swords.
Skaven weeping blades work the same as a 2H weapon would. If you have the Skaven Weeping Blades equipped they'll take up both slots.

A walking armoury would definitely be a bit too much, I agree. It is definitely up for discussion, although I can't make any promises as to whether it'll be implemented or not. I'll add this to a list of suggestions I'm currently collating, and see what the team thinks. I think every suggestion that gets put forward should definitely be worth some consideration and I do know you're very fond of the original tabletop rules! So I'll make sure your thoughts are seen.
 
Wholeheartedly against any tweaking with weapons. What we have now is great, this game doesn't need overpoewered all rounders. This is what makes this game good, you have to plan how to use your warriors and how to equip them to make things work.

BTW in tabletop you NEVER could take more than 2 melee and two 2 ranged weapons (paired/brace weapons being an exception). And you NEVER EVER could change weapon sets mid fight.
 
Unless they added that later rulebooks, then you could have unlimited weapons equipped. I think an FAQ and/or House rules said something about it.

Eventually dual-wielding will need to be addressed. Skaven are right around the corner and their iconic weapons are dual WEEPING BLADES.

Think that is bad? Wait until Cult of the Possessed come out and their mutants have 3 arms.
 
It was always in the rulebook.

Dual wielding is not a problem, it doesn't have to be additional attack let's not be that literal. It could work as a single weapon, blade in each hand is just a cosmetic. We'll see soon enough.
 
Okay #1 dual wielding. Its already in the game to a ridiculous degree characters have increasingly large range weapons like the scoped hochland long rifle and melee weapons like spears. There is little reason not to be able to exchange your ranged weapon with another melee weapon. Characters can duel wield pistols with Pistolier to unlock that, Actually use that as a basis either characters could need some combat skill to unlock using melee weapons in your off-hand, or allow that by default but put a penalty that requires a skill to counteract.

#2 two-handed weapons and shields...well Id like to see that but here ranged combat is overall weaker because of all the stacking defense effects like heavy armor, helmets, skills, heavy cover, inflated distance penalties, etc. Adding a shield on top of that is overkill.

#3 Two-handed weapons and ranged weapons. This is supposed to be an an option and making and "all-rounder" character is basically impossible in Warband Skirmish because of of skill requirements. You would need high stats in everything. Trying is possible, but hurts everely. Little reason not to allow two-handed weapons weapons and ranged weapons as characters will be bad at both until around level 20-30. At that point I see everyone being all-rounders by picking out entire skill trees.
 
There are many aspects of the game that we've altered in our game design. One of them being that you can't equip 2H weapons as well as something in your off-hand.

If you want to use a ranged weapon and a melee weapon at the same time, you're going to have to use a weapon that can be held in one hand, that's just the way it is. It's really down to you to decide what you want to focus on, whether that be parry stats or otherwise.

Skills allow you to build various different types of units, like a "hybrid" type unit like you've mentioned, for example, being able to use both a good melee weapon and good ranged weapon.

You have a limited amount of equipment slots to choose from, make the most out of them!
You really need to allow bucklers for ranged defence with a great weapon.

And I don't see why we can't have a sword in our offhand for +1 attack!
 
This is supposed to be an an option and making and "all-rounder" character is basically impossible in Warband Skirmish because of of skill requirements. You would need high stats in everything. Trying is possible, but hurts everely. Little reason not to allow two-handed weapons weapons and ranged weapons as characters will be bad at both until around level 20-30. At that point I see everyone being all-rounders by picking out entire skill trees.
You can't? I should go tell my guy ' ' that he's not allowed to exist :p
 
I was also a little frustrated with the lack of weapon choices but I understand where they are coming from. As long as Mordheim does what it continues to do and remains "In the spirit" of the game then I am going to be happy.
 
Here you go!

He started off as a marksman. Saved all my gold for the hockland with scope first.

You've seen the damage he can do by himself.

I've not actually played for a week as I've been so busy with work.


I really need to get him his 3rd ATK and bump his BS...
 

Attachments

Thank you for proving you cant make an all-round character without high level.

There are way too many skills necessary. Weapon skill 50, ballistic skill 45, and with random stat rolls that could take a long time.

But that really doesnt show any reason why you shouldnt be able to have a two melee weapons.
 
Chaosticket did you see the size of his ego... er I mean gun. Where would you fit two meeles weapon? Isn't a giant cannon/rifle for a weapon enough?
 
I do not know if youve ever played..well any games-workshop game or any RPG really. Thousands of years ago human invented containers. Some containers, such as sheaths, are for swords. You have holsters for guns. Pockets for whatnot.

Cahracters in this game are already superhuman. 30 strength if human range, 40 strength of bodybuilder. more than that and youre into superhero territory.

So how can you carry a big gun? Id ask why big weapons dont have any strength requirements. You can have 25 strength and still be a master with a Gromril Greatsword.

So if anyone says carrying A DAGGER in your off-hand is too much remember that.
 
You also missed the obvious one. Why is it that my warrior cannon learn marksmen skills? What invisible line keeps him from learning how to master a crossbow. Even medieval peasants learned to shoot them so why not my warrior?

I think there is a reason and it has to do with balance. Some of the decisions that are going to be made will have nothing to do with reality. They are made just because doing so makes a more fun, enjoyable and fair game. Having warriors become mini 40K dreadnoughts does not make a balanced game, so arbitrary decisions are enacted by the designers and making those tough calls is why they make the big bucks. If we like it we support their game if not we find another game to play.

I have designed games and I know the trade-offs. I like the decisions Legendary has made and even if they enact none of my suggestions they have will always have my support as long as the game meets the most important criteria off all...

The game is fun.

-S
 
Here you go!

He started off as a marksman. Saved all my gold for the hockland with scope first.

You've seen the damage he can do by himself.

I've not actually played for a week as I've been so busy with work.


I really need to get him his 3rd ATK and bump his BS...
Man... you will suffer in the future ;) Marksman with close combat weapon cannot stand a chance versus dedicated melee. Especilly ones who also have all speed skills. Which is apparently a norm later.
+ I see that characteristic rolls were really unkind to you.

I still sustain that dual wield is not a good idea. More than that, it was a problem that made tabletop Mordheim quite dull, since dual wield was much more effective than any other weapon option, especially because it had no penalties. I certainly don't want to see this foolishness here.
 
Thank you for proving you cant make an all-round character without high level.
I'd hope so! If it was easy everyone would do it, and then there wouldn't be much of a point between warriors and marksmen.

You also missed the obvious one. Why is it that my warrior cannon learn marksmen skills? What invisible line keeps him from learning how to master a crossbow. Even medieval peasants learned to shoot them so why not my warrior?
As you can see from my pictures they can both learn to do both, unless you pick a warband which doesn't have shooting skills. It's a very visible line when you select which faction you belong to.

Man... you will suffer in the future ;) Marksman with close combat weapon cannot stand a chance versus dedicated melee. Especilly ones who also have all speed skills. Which is apparently a norm later.
+ I see that characteristic rolls were really unkind to you.
Not true at all. I'm only 1 ATK off maximum usable melee skills. Most warbands I fight I have a higher WS then their warriors and can take 2-3 of them down in close combat without a problem.

I have had some VERY bad rolls, esp on my wounds. But he's still a beast who can take out warband's.


Remember you're matched by warband rating, so my single level 33 guy has a warband rating of 515, which means I'm up against slightly experienced warband's.
 
Top