Suggestion/Discussion: Hired Sword Balance

Discussion in 'Bugs / Suggestions / Support' started by Trapsinger, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. Trapsinger Major

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    TLDR Version:

    Point 1: The Freelancer is a little weak compared to other hired swords. Lets give him shooting skills!

    Point 2: There is a hole in hired sword roles, that could be filled by a shooter.

    Long Winded Version:

    All of the hired swords currently available in the game have access to at least three skill lists, or two lists and some other distinct advantage like greatly increased stats. Currently only the ogre and the freelancer have access to only two skill lists, and the ogre has triple normal wounds and bonus strength and causes fear to make up for it, but the freelancer is just a guy with no special skills. Consequently, I see the freelancer as a waste of money/fate to hire. The Pit Fighter starts with more levels, and has access to a third skill list, and he's cheaper, so the freelancer is kind of useless. There are a couple of ways I could see to fix this, but the simplest (as stated above) would be to give him access to shooting skills, which would give him the same skill choices as a Reiklander Warrior, which is the playstyle in the game I feel he matches most closely. The other, and perhaps cooler, idea I had was to make him more "Knightly" by giving him a special skill list of Knightly Virtues, much like the Brettonians from Fantasy Battle. That would be a lot more work for our developers though, and I'd rather have them spend development time on our missing warbands (Sisters and Possessed).

    My second point isn't necessarily solved by modifying the freelancer, so I'd like to go into it a little. Yes giving the freelancer shooting skills would help a lot, but I was more thinking that there should be a hired sword with skill lists that match each of the Human Mercenary warbands. The Pit Fighter is basically a Middenheimer that anyone can hire, and the Freelancer is (I think) supposed like a Reiklander that anyone can hire, but no one really matches up with the Marienburgers. If the Elf Ranger were added I think he would fill that slot well, but I can sort of see why he would take more development time if he needs a special body and armor skins. So I was trying to think what would match lore and be easier to throw in the game to balance out the hired swords. My two best ideas I think would be to add either a black powder specialist and call it either an Outrider, or a Nuln Engineer, or to add an Ostlander Jaeger, which is something from the Mordheim annual.

    The Outrider/Engineer would start with blackpowder mastery, and the pistolier skill, wear one of the defense 25 breastplates, and one of the fancy feathered hats. Then his weapons would be either a brace of pistols, or a dagger and the repeater handgun. All of those things are present in the Warhammer Fantasy World, and match up pretty closely with Empire lore, so even though it wasn't in the original Mordheim, I think it would be a solid addition to the game.

    The Ostlander Jaeger has the advantage of already being in Mordheim Lore as it was one of the heroes you could choose for the Ostlander Warband from the Mordheim Annual, and this game already has a tradition of making cool hero choices into hired swords. The Jaeger more closely matches how the elf ranger would work, but without the art assets. He would start with a long bow, and one of the weight 1 leather armor choices, and probably the kerchief as a helmet. In the annual he had a special skill to lay traps, but I think that could be easily omitted just to avoid development time on the extra skill, so he could be popped into the game in a hurry.

    Any of those three ideas, the elf ranger, the outrider, or the jaeger, would use the same skills as a marienburg marksman, Combat, Shooting, and Speed. Which would effectively make it possible for any of the three mercenary skill sets to be hired by another warband.

    What do you guys think? Does the game need a shooting hired sword? Does anyone else feel the Freelancer is a little underwhelming? Can you think of any other ways to balance out the Freelancer, or add a Shooting skills hired sword? Especially if you can match it to the Lore of the game, which has been very important to all the players, and the developers.

    Edit: popping in a picture of the outriders, so you know i'm not making them up:

    [IMG]
  2. FlaminGallahs2089 Corporal

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    I agree freelancer does need a buff, maybe even allowing him more armour could help.
    But giving him range skill list would help make him similar to reiklanders which would be nice continuity.

    I think there needs to be a ranged hired sword and outriders would be best tbh.
    They would fit well.
    Elf range i would avoid as elves give them expansion plans after the traditional bamds are done.

    (Orcs, norsca, elves, dwarves, beastmen are warbands that could be added depending on how long there is development)

    Though as an extra suggestion for undead I think Wights need to be added (with the guess Thralls already on the way eventually).
    Tho a wight would be more a normal model not hire sword, making Dregs boost vamp somehow when they close and as such making dreg a hired sword and then that makes room for wights in as a normal troop.
    A Wights would be quite simple to add, other than the cosmetic adjustment.
    But make it they have terrible starting stats of WS, Leadership, Iniatative, strength like 15-25ish, but have alot of upgrades available, so they can end up with great wounds, defence and average strength and WS, but still terrible iniative and leadership.
    So they tanky, but lack offence like how dregs are now, but they make a actually undead model of the undead...
  3. Trapsinger Major

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    Well I mention the Elf Ranger, cause he's the hired sword that's actually in the mordheim book, so he's probably coming eventually.
  4. Jesse Shaffer Corporal

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    Yesterday afternoon, I was thinking to myself, “Gosh, Freelancers are a waste. What my Middenheim warband needs is an Elf Ranger.” Giving Freelancers shooting skills is a BEAUTIFUL idea! While making them more like Brettonian knights would be incredibly cool, your first idea is just so darned efficient!
  5. Trapsinger Major

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    Yeah, I thought it was a good idea too!

    The problem is Legendary is trying to be as true to the rules in the book as possible in regards to skill lists, and in tabletop they didn't get shooting skills.

    My counter argument to that is that in tabletop you couldn't change their gear, and they already specifically changed the app to allow gear swapping on Hired Swords, so the rules are already modified. And since you couldn't give them ranged weapons in tabletop, but you can here, i still think giving them shooting skills is a good idea, even though it runs against the tabletop precedent.
  6. Trapsinger Major

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    Hey, I'm gonna bump this thread because Igenham had a great idea about hired sword balancing in our discussion about dreg skills, to limit hired swords to 1 each per warband, the way the vampire currently works. What do you guys think? would this encourage you to get freelancers again? Would it completely break any warbands, and if so why?

    Here is the original discussion i'm referring to:

    https://forums.legendary-games.com/index.php?threads/suggestion-new-dreg-skill.6566/#post-15053

    EDIT: Just went back and checked the TableTop book, and you were limited to one of each type in that too. So lets do it!

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