Suggestion: Non-Randomised Maximised Starting Stats and Skills on ALL Characters & Hired Swords

Discussion in 'Bugs / Suggestions / Support' started by Auretious Taak, Sep 1, 2018.


Do you want all starting Leaders, Characters & Hired Swords to have max starting stats and skills?

Yes 2 vote(s) 25.0%
No 6 vote(s) 75.0%
  1. Auretious Taak Corporal

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    The single most frustrating thing about Mordheim Warband Skirmish is the randomised starting stats and skills on all your characters.

    To be competitive long term, you MUST have as near to optimal and maximised starting characteristics and skills/proficiencies as your characters can begin with.

    There are threads here and elsewhere where people tell you that to have any chance of being competitive late game you should create a warband and look at your captain's stats and if they are not perfect or near perfect with a minimal of the max starting wounds and maxed weapon skill, ballistic skill, strength and leadership and in some cases initiative, then these threads advise you to delete that warband and start a new warband. I myself have over 2 dozen undead warbands sucking up space in my back up warband game slots that I will NEVER, EVER PLAY because the Necromancer was, to be frank, a load of crap. It took me close on two hours before I had a necromancer that I settled on and even than I was not satisfied. I almost quit the game for good doing this.

    People do this for all the various warbands to ensure a good starting Leader.

    The same applies to hiring individual characters as you progress your warband. Do you want to compete against enemy warbands? Then you need your maximum starting wounds (5 for most) anything less is a waste of time. You don't want sub-par secondary and tertiary stats either. A Reiklander marksman can get up to 40 ballistic skill, taking anything less is a waste of that marksman's potential, but you want them to have a decent above 30 Weapon skill and above 30 strength preferably 35 of each and a good initiative and leadership as well. Finding just one of these characters can take you hundreds of games to do.

    E.g. For my current Reiklanders (having a break from my Skaven), my naked Captain won about half his games with fisticuffs, each game would last around 3 minutes to load in, engage and rout either way, then I'd sell wrydstone if applicable, check the tavern for the marksmen and any with 5 wounds I'd look at more closely and if none of them matched I played a new game. If it all went smoothly I'd smash out about 20 games in an hour doing this. At 140 wrydstone I found a marksman I was happy with, 3 of the stats including wounds, BS and WS maxed to start and high strength, leadership and initiative, so I nabbed him.

    140 shards with about half wins to hire my first character after my captain - I played about 200 games. 10 hours of gameplay to hire my second character. It's a ludicrous figure.

    But why are we forced to have to do this when we could just start with maxed starting skills on all our characters, hired swords and leaders? It would save everyone a lot of pain, hassle and time, allowing you to enjoy the game sooner rather than later and also to retain players in the long term.

    THE ONLY REASON I played that long without just walking away from Mordheim Warband Skirmish for good was because where I currently live, I don't have control over the internet and we have a monthly download limit and I managed to max it out (it's not very high even when being careful) with more than a week of the month to go, so the only way to get my gaming fix in outside of offline gaming on my laptop was to play a mobile game, Mordheim Warband Skirmish is my only mobile game currently so I did the grind. Many players wouldn't have and if I had unlimited internet, I wouldn't have bothered. My time I put aside for gaming to relax can be better spent on a game that isn't trying to punish me for picking it up and giving me sub-optimal and poor characters to play with whilst other players get lucky and get optimal and superior characters and beat me every time.

    There are people who popped onto the forums, became very vocal with feedback and community interaction and then have gotten fed up with this game because of the randomised starting characteristics which essentially takes the competitive aspect of the game and throws it out the window. How lucky are you? How many hours and days of time do you have to throw away to get a good group of warriors and then if they die, are you seriously going to spend all that time looking for a replacement, especially if it's a new character? You're not gonna drop fate onto such a character if they are not very advanced that's for sure, not everyone, after all, has a lot of real world money they can drop onto the game and no one likes a microtransaction powered gaming experience.

    De'adhiel, is one of my friends in real life. We found the forums independently of each other and both enjoy the game coming from a background in tabletop gaming that stretches back 20 to 30 years. We've both played Mordheim for much of the past 2 decades from its' original concept publishing in White Dwarf Magazine and once it became a boxed game unto itself. Mordheim Warband Skirmish is pretty much the tabletop game as a mobile game. It isn't a carbon copy but it's pretty close. And we've both played this game to death and love it. However, De'adhiel hasn't played Mordheim Warband Skirmish for a few weeks now. He is sick of the non-equal non-optimal starting statted characters for players to hire. The time investment is simply too great and too boring and I'm more and more agreeing with this.

    The Mordheim tabletop game is balanced because everyone always starts off with the same stats and skills for their characters whether they be a hero, a henchman or a hired sword or dramatis personae. The difference is between warbands and their unique skills and equipment and play styles and it is pretty well balanced across the board in the tabletop version. There's no fluffing about wasting time, you pick your warband you start with a selection of starting gear and you get into the campaign games and it is beautiful. Two identical starting warbands played against each other are perfectly balanced and it is down to the players' skills at the game to beat their opponent. Mordheim Warband Skirmish needs to be emulating this aspect of the tabletop game. Essentially, everyone starts off on an equal footing and so no one is wasting time and can just play the game and enjoy it from the get go.

    SUGGESTION - All Characters whether a starting leader, a normal member of the warband (say a marksman or a warrior for a mercenary warband) or a hired sword, start off with the maximum starting characteristics and skills that they can begin with.
    PRO - People don't waste time and are less likely to walk away from the game for good because they no longer rely on luck and grinding away immense amounts of their time to get halfway decent starting characters in their warbands.

    PRO - Players who have stopped playing due to the randomised starting nature of the game coupled with the need to have immense spare time to mindlessly grind towards ideal starting characters purely so as your warband is playable against opposing warbands, are more likely to come back and continue playing the game and supporting Legendary Games. I know of several players who have stated they will come back to the game if it has maximised starting stats for every character type there is.

    PRO - Competitively, everyone starts off on an even footing and so it is down to an individual stylistic approach to the overall strategy of a battle as well as warband development and a tactical turn by turn approach to determine a more balanced and competitive leader board. The Leader boards would no longer be as randomised and luck driven and so people are encouraged to play more if they value overall rankings which a lot of gamers do.

    PRO - From a revenue point of view for Legendary Games, with max starting characteristics available for all characters, people are less likely to play dozens or hundreds of games to save up gold to purchase hired swords without spending real world money, and instead, being able to hire hired swords within several games from the start, is more likely to result in Fate purchases to enable acquisition of chosen hired swords to allow players to play how they want to sooner rather than later. Players are not disadvantaged by having fate to spend because they can still play as normal and recruit hired swords with built up gold as normal, but those people who want to speed the process up are more likely to skip the grind and just use fate sooner rather than later.

    CON - Existing warbands, if characters are not updated from their baseline randomised characteristics and skills (some characters have identical characteristics but will differ in starting skills and proficiencies currently despite being the same character type, this should also be standardised to maximum starting skills) then there will be discontent in the community and player base for existing warbands. If optimal starting characteristics were implemented then this goes both ways - if existing characters are able to be updated to basic optimal starting stats on top of their current starting stats and skills/characteristic development then that would be awesome, but if not, then at least everyone has the same options of all games going forwards having the same starting optimised hireable characters. If the latter, there will be people who will rage at it, but then they will also have the same options as everyone else and will be treated equally so moving forwards it wouldn't be that bad especially as the players likely to rage like this are more likely to have been players to grind away for near perfect and optimal starting characters anyway and can grind new warbands far faster as a result.

    DISCUSSION - So what are peoples thoughts on this? Please be objective with the discussion because it is an important suggestion and could act as a very positive catalyst within the community going forwards.

    Have a grand day,

    Auretious Taak.
  2. Shangular Major

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    I can see your perspective. However I voted no in that there are some players who like the randomness or luck of the draw challenge for the game. I started a new warband to make things interesting.

    However to addresss some of the concerns above, perhaps create a leveling system where you can continue to increase stats by spending for example 1 skill point to increase any stat by 1. That way if you’re not happy with a certain stat, you have the ability to increase it. Since there is no level cap in the mobile version, anyone can focus of improving any skill to any desired level.
  3. Shangular Major

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    Actually what may be another solution to allow the best of both worlds is to have a reroll but when creating your warband. That way players can keep rerolling to get their acceptable captain without creating 20 warbands.
  4. FlaminGallahs2089 Major

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    Of course having a limit is needed.
    Like you cant just have everyone with 100 wounds, but this solution is logical, early game and mid game would still be affected by a low stated captain, but the late game competitiveness wouldnt.
    But this solution I feel is great.

    Though personally I always understood the randomness, say if me and you had a boxing match.
    Its not equal, one is stronger, more skilled and more iniatative and leadership.

    I dont feel all stats should be maxed,
    But having more nuetral stats,
    Eg. Captain can start with average stats all across the board, or maybe have high wounds but low in a nother catergory then.
    Then it creates more of a uniqueness to each character, where you characters each have strengths and weaknesses.
    Spannna likes this.
  5. _Q_ Corporal

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    The tabletop game gives you only very limited control over character development; the dice decide what advances you get and, crucially, there are a limited number of advances. As this version allows complete control over, and unlimited, character progression, having unequal starting stats is pretty much the only option for emulating the character differences that are such a core feature of the original game.

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