Suggestion: Rebalance SKill trees

No, we just did stanadard charge "strike first". Shields had 1000 house rules (including the one with 5+ cc save), none of it rivaled +1A for dual wield in the long run. As for critical hits we're using optional (house ruled lol) table from advanced rules.


7. Ok here are some chosen screenshots of my warband "big uns":
As you can see it's entirely possible to get all things you need /want. You just need to play,gain xps... and that's it. Patience, good planning and tactics.

I cant my for my Horned Strikers to find you and strike from the shadows ( have you added dogs yet?)

also have no tabletop experience beyond a few game with borrowed models and im more of a 40k guy,i get the game is different and i think each has its merits and i've gone over that in another post.
So I need 1000+ more experience per character to level them up, 0-1 point per game. Have I mentioned yet how this is torturous?

Start small. Okay how about characters just start with more proficiencies?

Captain adds Crossbow Training.
Warrior adds Crossbow Training, and Bow Training.
Marksmen adds Crossbow Training and Weapons Training.


How about the ability to pick a free upgrade upon recuitment and you get to pick the skills your captain has.
Is that sarcasm? The captain is underwhelming because of how many skills he has prepurchased and half are effectively worthless in the Warband Skirmish system of overspecialization. SKaven players WISH they had a Reikland captain.
I don't get it. Why cpt is underwhelming? From my experience they are the best fighters and get most experience thanks to their higher starting stats. Look at my cap. Any "usefull" skills were taken long time ago. Now he's earning xp and advances for the sake of it - streetwise, haggle, animal care won't do any difference how my warband will perform. They only thing he can do now is in fact putting skill points in BS to earn achievement "paragon" (or whatever it's called).

Also Assassin Adept is much,much better (sans LD) than human captain. Of course weapons and armour issue. I would gladly exchange profiles for skaven leader.

About XP. You don't have to "finish" the game overnight you know... Wht are your expectations?
I certainly refuse to acknowledge that xp system is flawed.

Basically you'd like to change how entire game works - mechanics (hit chances etc), xp, items, . I'm under impression that you actually like nothing about this game except that it's Mordheim. I hope I'm wrong.
Finish this game overnight? Ive been here over a month of heavy grinding. I dont know what you expect this game to be. Its not an MMORPG like world of warcraft where you have hundreds of quests and different areas and bosses.

Okay Marquand I can see youre baiting me as you never put any logical reasoning. Most of the time your final answer seems to be somehow related on keeping other players from getting characters or rank as high level as yours.

Actually Ill just stick to one factor. What is the player(not just Marquand) drawback of having less grinding?
I asked you a question what do you expect from this game. Your answear is that "you don't know what I expect of this game"...

I'm not baiting you. I want to understand what you really want and why you're still playing since everything sucks (according to what you write). And I wonder how is it so difficult to accept that this game has DIFFERENT MECHANICS than tabletop. You come with "but in tt Mordheim" argument ad nauseum - this is not TT Mordheim. This is MORDHEIM WARBAND SKIRMISH.

I played for a month too. And by posting pics of my warband I proved that what you claim as an impossibility or extrememly difficult (xp, equipment) can be achieved. But you're choosing to ignore it. I don't undestand it. And yes my high rank is a proof that it simply can be done. Nothing more. I'm too old to be proud of video game achievements if that's your meaning. It's merely a fact that I really like that I'm not bombarded with ads, there are no pay to win items, and everything you can achieve is up to you. Unlike other games where you can buy stuff,heroes,gold,cp,whatever with real money MordheimWS shines. I don't like some (and some more) things about this game but generally it's the best mobile strategy game I ever played. I have no problems with praise and critique in equal measure. On the other hand I've NEVER seen you witing ANYTHING positive about MWS.

And I'm not really sure that constant comaprisons with tabletop M count as logical reasoning.
I dont know if well ever agree on anything. You and i dont even agree on if making an accurate adaptation or Mordheim is important or if this is actually a good game without the Mordheim name.

For your information I have praised the streamlining of initiative checks and I like the concept of expanded RPG elements.

I think I can sum up all my comments as "make it more like Mordheim", "balance the gameplay" and "less grinding".

And you still havent answered if reducing gameplay grinding is a bad thing.


Choas just to give my two cents if they made it more like mordhiem and each match took more than 20 mins to play I would not be playing already with my 7 extra giant rats movement can be a pain even though they have automatic path-finding and attacking, I think the scale and the complexity of the game are where it needs to be just like the skill tree, its not perfect but its pretty good and its simple enough that no one was interested in my flowchart to the archery skill tree at all. There are tweaks for sure but in terms of reorganizing the entire skill tree i think that could be crazy it would radically change the game, to a way where it would no longer be mordhiem warband skirmish it would become mordhiem the mobile table top game.

I don't think they started with the idea to perfectly replicate the table top experience otherwise we would have dice to roll and other things (after all they have a virtual dice roller too already in the play store), i think they trying to make a shorter smaller product that encourages non players to maybe check out the tabletop version of the game and maybe buy some models if they walk into a gw, as well as a good semblance to the game that many table top veterans know and love.
Okay youre doing the same thing Ive seen many times. Youre deflecting the question and redirecting it.

What is the player drawback of having less grinding?

I havent asked about changing the skills effects. Ive asked about removing the requirements. Explain to me how its beneficial to extend the grinding?


Your "grinding" is part of the game there are things that are easily picked up and some that need to be trained for if I know that getting my guy to do X in the future I will plan accordingly. Do you want everything unlocked immediately with no prerequisites for anything? That would make some achievements feel cheapened. There is a good balance of skills that you can get immediately Vs trees that you need to slowly acquire.
And how does that benefit players? Im going to keep asking that until I get any reason why anything I put up here is a bad idea.
This thread is going back and forth of "Me: I have an idea. You: Its a bad idea: Me: Why is it a bad idea?
You: Its a bad idea: Me: Why is it a bad idea?
You: Its a bad idea: Me: Why is it a bad idea?
You: Its a bad idea: Me: Why is it a bad idea?

#1 more starting proficiciencies. How is this bad?

#2 less requirements, particularly no Strength requirements to get Wounds Increase or Fearsome, and no long path to pick up Dodge. How is this bad?

#3 for ranged weapons, Increase the benefit from reaching Mastery in that particular weapon. Right now its most a +5% bonus, but you have reaching Mastery as a requirements for other skills(Hunter, Eagle Eyes, Knife Fighter, etc). This would either remove padding OR actually make those skills reals benefits rather than padding. How is this bad?

Overall anything I can suggest here wont really benefit me unless I get a skill reset so a refund on the points Ive already spent on junk skills. On the other hand it does benefit you to keep others from getting any improvement so you dont get challenged in your position. Thats the only reason I can think of for anyone being against this because you wont explain your reasoning to anything.

These changes would reduce the padding of the skills trees so that the overall skill trees reduced SLIGHTLY. There are already plenty of balances ingame. It wouldnt mean something as extreme as characters starting out with 100% hit chances. So you have a character with Quick Shot and a 5% chance to hit things because you didnt increase your Ballistic Skill.

This would cut down padding for different characters in different ways. Ranged characters dont benefit from Strength, QUick Reactions, Lighting Reflexes, and so on that are requirements that dont benefit them because they are melee skills. Starting characters would benefit as they dont have to jump through hoops to pick up weapons.


#1 more starting proficiciencies. How is this bad?
Then your talent pool get further diluted by unfocused skill people could also say why am i getting X to start with when Y is way better/id much prefer that.
#2 less requirements, particularly no Strength requirements to get Wounds Increase or Fearsome, and no long path to pick up Dodge. How is this bad?
We've already mentioned how hard it is to deal with fear causing units (especialy for skaven) and multi wound characters are a huge advantage to the battlefield so it makes sense that you need to work for them.
#3 for ranged weapons, Increase the benefit from reaching Mastery in that particular weapon. Right now its most a +5% bonus, but you have reaching Mastery as a requirements for other skills(Hunter, Eagle Eyes, Knife Fighter, etc). This would either remove padding OR actually make those skills reals benefits rather than padding. How is this bad?
Some weapons mastering can go as high as 20% more for certain weapons and it makes sense that you need to master your weapon before you start to unlock diffrent skills for it.

Also if you want to talk about long trees try getting the Perfect Killer on a regular skaven and well talk about dependencies
Its prerequisites are WS 40 and BS 40
Tabletop game was the most broken rule set imaginable. And every addition just made things more fiddly. Setting was awesome. Keep the spirit, ditch the rules.
Good point DTay88, I think that statement could sum up about 95% of what is discussed on in this forum!
FINALLY some actual counterpoint.

Okay #1, I think you mean characters would have to pay in levels to have the extra proficiencies, I meant for free. You would still have to actually purchase the items meaning cost is still the primary. I means trying out non-linear weapon setups like throwing knives and pistols would be available instead of a waste of points you cannot refund.

#2 Fearsome is indeed powerful which Is why every characters wants/needs/will eventually have it. If you allowed everyone to to have it immediately then that would instead give everyone the dilemma, Fearsome now or Later? Right now its pretty linear that characters will all have a predictable setup. You wont find anyone with Fear before a certain point even if they min-max to just have the STrength requirements, and even if they could logically that would result in drawbacks, such as very few Wounds and would be easy to counter by someone else also having Fear or just using ranged weapons you bypass the problem.

#3 Ranged weapon Masteries are junk as there are very few Mastery benefits aside from the +5% accuracy bonus and theyre on weapons you wont purchase. Short Bow, Repeater Crossbow, Repeater Handgun, and Scoped Long Rifle get unique mastery bonues and I almost never see those weapons at all because theyre barely usable with even the special powers. Longbow, Crossbow, Handgun and Hochland Long Rifle are the most used ranged weapons.

Melee weapon Masteries are awesome as they have powerful effects such as adding +20% to your critical hit chance or putting lowering target Defense to 20.

Its very lopsided as you can have Mastery with every Melee weapon by using 4-5 points and get huge bonuses while ranged take 8 skills and the only Shooting Mastery you will ever use is Blackpowder mastery.