Suggestions/Speculations: Cult of the Possessed

Discussion in 'Bugs / Suggestions / Support' started by Trapsinger, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. Trapsinger Major

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    As promised, my thoughts on the Possessed. I wasn't implying anything by doing the Sisters first, I just personally like them better.

    I think the key points to include to maintain the flavor of the Possessed is mutations, chaos magic, and beastmen.

    Leader: Magister
    Basic Troop: Brethren

    I think the brethren should have two upgrade paths. A skill called Darksoul, that works much like Fanatic does for the Witch Hunters, by making the unit immune to leadership, and unable to become a leader. (for the possessed version of the skill it shouldn't give extra strength, but it also shouldn't prevent the use of armor) And as their second upgrade path, they should be able to get mutations. Note that a darksoul in tabletop can't have mutations, so this should be mutually exclusive in Warband Skirmish.

    I think that the Possessed and the Beastmen should be hired swords. They have great starting stats, and the potential to get extremely powerful, so I feel like they should play somewhat like an ogre or a vampire. Maybe limit the Possessed to 1 per band, and make it your first hire like a vampire or a warrior priest, but allow multiple beastmen since the limit for them in tabletop was 3, and they feel like herd animals. I see the beastmen playing sort of like a Freelancer or a Pit Fighter, except I would allow them two stacks of resilience, and only light armor. That might be just me.

    I also think that one of the key points about chaos magic, and chaos in general, is that it's a bit unpredictable, and sometimes bad for you. I'd like to preserve this by making all sources of mutations random. Either a skill advance that gives you a random mutation, or an item like the tome of magic that gives you a random spell. In tabletop you had to choose your mutations and pay for them at character creation, but we can't customize new hires in the tavern in this game, and I think making them random when you get them is more fun, and in the spirit of the Chaos of it all. As far as how many mutations you can have, i would personally think that three is enough for a Brethren, but Possessed should start with three and be able to get three more from leveling up.

    I also think it's important to represent each mutation visually, especially since possessed don't get gear otherwise, and it would allow you to see how your Possessed would play at a glance in the tavern. Here are some thoughts on how they should look:

    Demon Soul: Red glowing eyes. or horns on the head.
    Great Claw: replaces main hand arm, and gives +10 strength.
    Cloven hooves: replaces feet and legs with satyr/goat appearance (could reuse beastman feet?)
    Tentacle: replaces offhand arm (if the 1 attack reduction mechanic can't be added then i see this working as an automatic parry once each turn, so replacing the arm that holds bucklers makes sense to me)
    Blackblood: skin should be darkened to grey like the zombie variant
    Spines: I think it would be fine to reuse the back spines that are on some of the ghouls in the undead.
    Scorpian Tail: tacked on to the butt, but curled up high over one shoulder. (this would prevent the use of capes on armor, is that okay?)
    Extra Arm: I think this should be omitted, partially because i think it would look awful, and partially because this game doesn't have standard rules for dual wielding.
    Hideous: I'm not sure this needs a graphic, but if it changed their animations to match the ghoul or the zombie, it might work well. either that or spikes on the face.

    What I like about setting it up like that, is that none of the effects would replace each other, so you could potentially get almost all of them on one possessed hired sword, and he would look extremely cool.

    the chaos rituals magic will be a bit more challenging from a mechanics perspective, because they really require several features that are not currently in the game. Especially being stunned without taking damage, and taking control of someone else's warriors. Also some spells like Dark Blood rely on an injury table that includes a "knocked down" result that doesn't exist in warband skirmish. Could they safely just use the stunned result? Also for the Lure of Chaos spell they'll need to completely build a new method for opposed leadership checks. Do you guys think it would work well if they handled it like a WS roll to hit?

    I personally might lower the effectiveness of Eye of the Gods so that it can be recast in longer games. Maybe the bad result could be stunned instead of killed, and the positive results could have a duration, 1 to 3 turns?

    What do you guys think? Did I miss anything you think is important to make them feel like the Cult of the Possessed? Would you handle mutations differently? Don't like the randomness?

    the other problem i don't really know how to solve is replacing a dead magister. Should you have to hire a new one, like the necromancer in the undead? Could you promote a brethren? If you promote a brethren would it have to be an unmutated one? Or could you have a mutated wizard leading your warband? Which also raises the question, are you allowed to mutate a magister that doesn't already have mutations?
  2. Jesse Shaffer Corporal

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    I like most of your thoughts above. Mutations absolutely should change the model’s physical appearance. In addition to spikes for hideous, they could also add open sores, warts, and even eyes, mouths, or individual teeth sticking out in weird places. That would be consistent with a lot of chaos aligned miniatures.

    Random mutations though would irritate me to no end and, if implemented, would probably prevent me from buying the Possessed. I’m particular about my characters and want them exactly how I want them. Fortunately, we do have a way to purchase them in the game: we have the store. I think we should buy them in the store as equipable permanent upgrades. Once equipped, they should dissappear from our purse’s inventory the same way magical tomes do.
  3. Trapsinger Major

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    just to clarify you are suggesting that each different mutation type be a separate item with a separate rarity? just like individual pieces of gear, but you can't unequip them?

    edit: i mean, i certainly see the appeal of getting to choose your mutations, but i remember in tabletop mordheim where absolutely all the advances were random, and I miss that a little. it would be nice if at least one of the warbands here had some element of that. also, there are only 8 mutations, so if possessed got 6, that's pretty much all of them.
  4. Shangular Major

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    Great ideas above. My thoughts:

    1) Coming from the TT background, each was allowed 2 Possessed warriors.
    2) For Mutations, I'm not sure if the TT designers ever intended for a single model to obtain all mutations since a campaign typically won't last that long. Now in the mobile game, you'll play a hundred plus games and thus will be able to acquire all mutations. I'm wondering if there should be limits on the maximum number for game balance purposes? Of course these depends on how powerful these mutations are made when translated into the mobile gameplay engine.
    3) Beastmen - I think these should be normal warriors similar to undead having ghouls and dregs.
    4) If Magister dies - I think a brethren who hasn't been upgraded to the darksoul path should be able to take on this role. He should of course have to build up the magic skill similar Merc captain.
    5) Now one feature of the Possessed warband in the TT version that you didn't mention above, which is one of my favorites is the ability to visit the Pit and gain a boon. Love it when my Magister becomes possessed in the TT version. Not sure the best way to implement it here, but that randomness is perfect to exhibit the feel of Chaos. Perhaps this can be done at the expense of spending a Skill Point. In the TT version, when you visit the pit, you may get nothing or get something good, so in the moblile version, you'd have to gamble with the Skill Point you just earned because you may waste it if you get nothing.
  5. Trapsinger Major

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    visiting the pit was an "optional rule" and none of the others are in use, so i omitted it on purpose. It does add the randomness though, so it might be a good idea. I was just trying to be consistent
  6. Shangular Major

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    ah forgot it was in the optional rules section. We always used it when we played back in the day as it was too fun to not use :)
  7. Jesse Shaffer Corporal

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    Each mutation confers a significant tactical advantage distinct from the rest which absolutely effects play style. The 'order' in which one gets them would actually matter in Warband Skirmish. Depending on the rest of your warband, it could very easily mean the difference between a character that's fun to level and one that's a total grind.

    You could still have your randomness, btw. Just close your eyes and poke the screen! :D
  8. Jesse Shaffer Corporal

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    Being able to make a pilgrimage to the Pit would be awesome. Honestly, I want all of the optional rules added. I miss mounts. Mounts would be epic in Warband Skirmish. And they'd fit!!! I've measured.

    Since this is a digital incarnation of the game, we aren't limited in the same ways as TT. It might add a lot of value to the game if we had to literally go to the Pit and the current incarnation of the Pit were a more...well...festering, slithering, nightmare of despair.
  9. FlaminGallahs2089 Corporal

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    Mounts would be hard to add/ if added I dont think worth it.
    They would be implmented it would like pets.
    Of course you could control them, as they are under your character.
    Their buffs would probably be +15 strength on charge, +4 movement, -10WS...
    But would die quite often.
    Though honestly I am all for adding in mounts/ beasts.
    Like for a vamp warband having a fellbat would be awsome, and add a new dynamic especially if they could be controlled...
    It would allow for more easy access across the map for scouting, and each beast having drawbacks is a obvious need (wether a tanky troll has no WS and range, fellbat has terrible woulds, griffon would be hard to take down...)
    These beasts (limited to 1 per warband, maybe like 2-3 for fellbats and horses)
    In essence stronger pets I can control is what I want, will give higher levels more options (say a freelancer is only one who can recruit pegasus, that would make em unique?)
    Though thats just crazy talk for after the other warbands are out.

    For Chaos I would prefer it rely more randomly.
    Chaos is unpredicatble, and thats what would make this warband unique.

    I like the Leader being magister
    But for troops that can be recruited a possible: Brethren and Ungors
    Brethrens as said can become mutated (for those whom want control maybe fate can reverse mutations and fate can also give mutations?) or dakrsouls
    Ungors when upgraded become Gors, or ungor range (unlocks range skills)
    As purchasable units say chaos caster/ cultist, some sort of chaos magic (dont know the lore but you guys can probably come up with a better idea unless the magister is a caster I am not sure on this one)
    Possessed
    Chaos Spawn (like a rat ogre, so probably would make more sense as a pet for the caster).
    Norscan Raider

    So their warbands roles will long like
    Magister- Leader
    Ungor Marksman - terrible in melee, and not great range really either
    Gor - Stronger melee presence (wounds and strength), lacks WS and leadership though
    Darksoul - Strong allround, though caps out about the same as normal warriors
    Mutated - Has strengths in mutations, weakness for same reasons
    Possessed - Mutated but to the extreme
    Caster - Same as other casters (brings a spawn to the fight)
    Raider - Same as pit fighter

    So every warband will be different, but will be balances as most of their warriors have weaknesses, though a high potential warband when used correctly.
    I have no knowledge of the lore, so if any of this contradicts I happy if you tear it down.
  10. Trapsinger Major

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    Hey, FlaminGallahs!

    Yes the Magister is the caster in the original Cult of the Possessed warband for Tabletop. His spells were:

    1. Vision of Torment, short range automatically stun your opponent
    2. Eye of God, buff one ally, randomly he would either get +1 to one stat, +1 to all stats, or immediately die.
    3. Dark Blood, automatically stun yourself to shoot a powerful ranged attack
    4. Lure of Chaos, temporarily gain control of an enemy unit.
    5. Wings of Darkness, a 12" range teleport
    6. Word of Pain, hit everyone, friend and foe, near the caster.

    In the original Cult of the Possessed warband they only had access to "Bestmen" which turned out later to have the statline for a Gor, but they didn't call them Gor and Ungor until a second Chaos warband came out, specifically called Beastmen. In the long run there were three Chaos bands for mordheim, if memory serves, and they were Cult of the Possessed, Beastmen, and Carnival of Chaos. So while I like the idea of the Ungors getting some ranged skills, it might have to wait until they make the next chaos band (if this version of the game ever gets that far.)
  11. Igenham Corporal

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    Just for the gors and ungors, according to official Warhammer lore (if memory serves), they are separate sub-breeds, similar to orcs and Gobelins. Legendary Games may not be able to mess with that due to their IP license (I remember there was an issue with them using the term “maneater” for the ogres)
  12. FlaminGallahs2089 Corporal

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    Oh okay,
    I remmeber reading total war lore saying that the main difference was the length of the horns and the animal mutations so I thought that would allow a ungor to eventually become a gor with experience and the help of the shadow lords mutations.


    Fair I was just thinking for a large varience in a cult warband.
    But I suppose we already have that varience in the different factions.

    On TT what bands eventually made it? (Just curious)
  13. Trapsinger Major

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    It depends a little on how you count them. To finish out the original book we just need sisters and possessed. The only other "official" publication was what we call "The Annual" which was supposed to come out every year, but they only did one. The annual included several new bands:

    Orcs and goblins
    The shadow warriors (high elves)
    Dwarf treasure hunters
    Averlanders (hunters with halflings)
    Ostlanders (drunks with ogres)
    Kislevites

    But the annual was pulling stuff from the "unofficial" Town Crier magazine which had 30 or so issues and most of them had new warbands for several different settings around the Warhammer world, with varying degrees of balance against each other.
  14. Igenham Corporal

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    Wasn’t there also an “official” (town crier) Norse warband too? Seem to remember playing it. There was also the “Empire in Flammes” expansion that had two warbands (kermès of chaos and beast men, if I rember correctly, I am currently looking that up).

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