Suggestions/Speculations: Sisters of Sigmar

Discussion in 'Bugs / Suggestions / Support' started by Trapsinger, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. Trapsinger Major

    Message Count:
    133
    Trophy Points:
    31
    We had fun with this discussion for the Witch Hunters (or at least I did) and now that they are out, and the warrior priest is almost done, it's pretty easy to see the basic framework of how the sisters will work, since they are basically witch hunters with no ranged and the warrior priest as the leader. So what's important to make this warband distinct and to make it feel like the sisters from tabletop?

    Obviously, we'll need some female character models. I don't want them to be super sexy and pretty though, honestly a little adjustment to the torso (narrower shoulders/waist, larger chest) of the male figures, and slightly less facial hair would make me happy. They can keep the ugly lined faces of the male figures, and I feel like they'd fit right into mordheim. I would like to see some longer hair options, though, and with that I'd like them to have a line of helmets that allowed the hair to still show on the character model.

    Also, although not specifically pertinent to the Sisters suggestions, i'd love to see the female models trickle out to the other warbands. The female Middenheimer youngblood with the dual wield hammers was always one of my favorite miniatures, and being able to recreate her would nice.

    Mechanically, the core things to include that are special about the Sisters are the Sigmarite Warhammers, the Steel Whips, the Special Skills list, and the Augur character.

    Before I get into those, though, I'd like propose an idea about the ranks of the sisterhood. The different models you could field in tabletop were all differently ranked members of the same order, representing their various level of training. They were Sister Superiors, Sigmarite Sisters, and Novices. I think that for this version of the game a great way to unlock the special skills and weapons of the sisters, is to have your warriors rank up as you play. A new warrior could start as a Novice, and then either by reaching a certain level, or unlocking a certain skill, she would rank up to be a Sigmarite Sister, and then later a Sister Superior. The simplest way to rank might just be every 5 levels. Level 5? boom you're a sister. level 10? boom you're superior. However, I think this might be more interesting:

    i. Start as a Novice (same stats and starting skills as a Zealot, they were the same basically in the book). Novices are restricted to "Light" armors.
    ii. Reach standard base Mercenary stats as a pre-req to a skill called "Sigmarite Sister" (WS 30, S 30, Weapon Training).
    iii. Sigmarite Sister unlocks use of Steel Whips, Sigmarite Warhammer, Heavy Armours, and half the Special Skills.
    iv. Reach Champion level stats to unlock a skill called Sister Superior. (WS 40, S35, Advanced Weapon Training).
    v. Sister Superior unlocks use of Dual Sigmarite Warhammers, and the other half of the Special Skills.

    I think it would also be logical lore wise if only a Sister Superior could be promoted to Matriarch if your leader dies, but that might leave some leaderless warbands for a while. This wouldn't be the end of the world as the Undead can also play leaderless, but I don't know how much "fun" that would be.

    This idea would certainly add a level of complication, and make advancement slower for the sisters, but it would preserve all the unit types from tabletop. What do you guys think? Unnecessarily complicated?

    As to the special equipment, Sigmarite Warhammers are pretty straight forward. I would propose using the warhammer stats for max enemy defense (not the skull hammer, cause naming, and cause it will have other stats, so don't want it to be the best at everything). Then it should also have +5(+10 w/mastery) strength, which would then be doubled against undead and possessed.

    There are specifically rules on the sigmarite warhammers, and models from tabletop equipped this way, for them to be dual wielded. So I think it's very important to include a Dual Sigmarite Warhammer option, which would have the same stats as single, with the additional bonus of +1 attack with rank 2 advanced weapon mastery, and obviously prevent the use of an off hand item.

    The Whip I could see being implemented well in one of two ways. Either just like a spear with more reach, which would be fine but not particularly interesting. Or as an offhand weapon that let you strike at range or melee with one extra attack, much the same way pistols currently work, except that it would use your WS instead of BS. The whip is very specifically a 1 handed weapon for the sisters, so I think either of these would work. The other special ability of the Whips was that they couldn't be parried, but i'm not sure that's necessary for this version.

    The Special Skills are also pretty straight forward as most of them mimic skills or spells already in the game, with a few exceptions:

    Sign of Sigmar: This skill has the same basic combat effect as Tentacle for the Possessed, which is also not in this game yet. It's supposed to reduce your opponents attacks by one down to a minimum of one (for sisters it's all undead or possessed in base contact, for the possessed it is one enemy model of any type). This mechanic is not currently in this version of the game, and if it can be added that's great! If it can't, I think this could be represented by giving the warrior an automatic parry against the first incoming attack each round.

    Utter Determination: In tabletop this allowed your leader to reroll a failed rout test once per turn. The problem is in tabletop there was always a chance to fail, because leadership couldn't exceed 10, and you rolled on two dice. In this version of the game leadership tests are rolled out of 100, and you can get to about 120, allowing for automatic success. I don't have a good idea of what to replace this with so it's feasible in Warband Skirmish, but I think it could just be safely omitted entirely without ruining the feel of the sisters. Leaving it in as it was written in the book is silly though, rerolling an automatic success isn't helpful in anyway.

    The last thing that will be important to include is the Augur, which I admit, I'm not sure I have good ideas for. The problem is that in the book she only had access to academic, speed, and special skills, and so much of combat in this version of the game requires access to at least one of combat/shooting/strength, that I think allowing the augur to play with access to none of those, would make her really bad. She also fought with dual wield daggers, and i think it would be neat to include that in this game as well. Something that worked sort of like an unpoisoned version of the weeping blades. with the ability to reroll misses, that might make the augur okay? but I can't picture it in my head, i'd need to play test it to be sure. Also not sure if she should be an alternate basic troop choice, a skill that removes her from the ranking system used by the other sisters, or a hired sword? Hopefully someone else out there as a good idea of how she could work in this.

    EDIT: couple more thoughts. I think it would be great if the promotion to Matriarch immediately made your character more...what's the right word? matronly?

    also in tabletop the sisters got no bladed weapons other than daggers, so it might be cool if they had some blunt weapons that filled the roles some of the bladed weapons did, maybe some with crit or parry. I could see a quarterstaff being a two handed weapon with parry for example.
  2. Igenham Corporal

    Message Count:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    11
    For the augur, she would just not have access to any special weapon skills, and limit which weapons she has access to. An example of this being done in the app is the ogre that only can take the first lvl of blackpowder (blackpowder training).

    So she could have access to
    • Weapons skill increase (possibly a more limited amount?)
    • Attack increase (maybe only once?)
    • Unarmed Training and Unarmed Master
    • Weapon training, but not weapon master
    • No other combat skills
    I'm not sure what her TT ability (re-roll all tests, saves and attacks) would look like, but might be fun!

    Concerning the dual sigmarite hammer, I don't think that should be lonked to Advanced weapons Master, but to Weapon's Master, as Weapons Training/Master specifically applies to one-handed hammers, but Advanced Weapons Training/Master applies to swords and two-handed weapons.

    I like your idea about the lvling of the sisters and unlocking new skills as they go up. Would give people a lot of different paths to chose from, although high-tier warbands might all look the same (why would you not use the advanced sister weapons?)
    Food for thought.
  3. Jesse Shaffer Corporal

    Message Count:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    11
    I really like your thoughts above Trapsinger. I have some of my own regarding the Augur.

    The Augur is someone who has given up her sight in the service of a higher power and that higher power has rewarded her. In the tabletop version, she could re-roll any failed characteristic test and that was totally cool. Given the enormous degree of leveling that characters undergo in Skirmish compared to TT, I think I have a pretty good idea about what a solid, unique feeling, and very fun translation would be as a hired sword.

    Blessed Sight is, without a doubt, the soul of the character and I think it's a skill that should be invested in...a lot (6, 8, 10, or 15 points). The idea being that she doesn't need strength skills, shooting skills, or combat skills, she has the favor of Sigmar. Every point invested in Blessed Sight would incrementally increase the likelihood that the re-roll was a success. For example, the fact that her WS should start and end on the low end of the progression scale should be meaningless after she's fully invested in Blessed Sight, she should be almost guaranteed to hit. Her defense would also be impressive.

    Purely random chance was fine for the TT which took two hours plus per game because no one ever leveled particularly high. That just won’t cut it in Skirmish. She should be more viable at level 40 than she is at level 5 and being stuck at random won’t get her there. To stretch out the progression path, the quality of her re-rolls should probably start at a little worse than random and gradually improve to much better than random. How much better, of course, would be a matter of testing.

    Players would still need to balance their investment in Blessed Sight with all her other skills so there would still be lots of decisions for them to make. I also think it would be really cool if her blindness and sacrifice were showcased in the model perhaps with blood dipping down from either closed eyes or a blindfold.
  4. Trapsinger Major

    Message Count:
    133
    Trophy Points:
    31
    My thought on making the Sigmarite Warhammers be Advanced Weapons, was that the sisters can't use swords, so the Advanced Weapons training doesn't do much unless one of their new weapons falls in that category. Could be the whips though? or maybe we can introduce some other new weapons that weren't in the book, like a Quarterstaff, or a Sigmarite Great Hammer?

    I was thinking that for the augur's head gear, that the "See No Evil" helmet from the witch hunters would fit nicely. It's convenient that there is already a blindfold item. They are also supposed to have a waist length braid of hair coming out of an otherwise bald head. Looking forward to that in game.
  5. Jesse Shaffer Corporal

    Message Count:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Igenham has a good point so I think warbands should max out at three Sister Superiors like the tabletop.
  6. Shangular Major

    Message Count:
    163
    Trophy Points:
    31
    So are Sisters up next? Not possessed :(
  7. Trapsinger Major

    Message Count:
    133
    Trophy Points:
    31
    I dunno, I don't work there, but I hope so.

    That said I was gonna do a thread on possessed tomorrow.

Share This Page