Suggestions/Speculations: Witch Hunters

Discussion in 'Bugs / Suggestions / Support' started by Trapsinger, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. Trapsinger Major

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    Hi!

    Maybe I'm just freaking out because I want the witch hunters so bad, but it's been six months since the Undead came out at which time we were told they were next and "coming soon" and no word since then.

    I sure hope they are still in development, and that we really are getting close to their release.

    In the mean time I thought maybe some of us forum frequenters could start brainstorming about what we'd like to see from this new band that would make them feel definitively like witch hunters, and still feel right in Warband Skirmish and balanced against the other bands.

    I think a big part of having a warband feel right in this version of the game is having them look right. To that end I think a big part of the aesthetic of the witch hunters was their iconic hats, and frequent use of pistols, crossbows, wardogs, and torches. Torches is the one item there that we don't have already in mordheim warband skirmish, how do you guys think they should work? There were rules for a lantern in tabletop that increased the range you could detect hidden models from, but they already have a speed skill in warband skirmish that fills that role. I personally think it would be cool if torches were an offhand item with parry, that also lit people on fire (sort of like the damage over time from Dark Venom) if they successfully parry.

    Some of the items I listed above were iconic for the witch hunters, but were given to other bands in warband skirmish, like wardogs and crossbow pistols. In tabletop the witch hunters were the only band that could field wardogs as regular troops without a rarity check, and the only band that could start with crossbow pistols. I'd like to see something added to warband skirmish that let the witch hunters focus more on these things so they got more use in witch hunter bands. In regards to crossbows pistols I think it would be neat if the witch hunters could dual wield them the way other bands can dual wield regular pistols. In regards to the dogs, I'd like to see the witch hunters have a way to get more than one (either through academic skills on everyone, or a special hired sword Houndmaster). This might also be a good time to introduce dueling pistols with more range and accuracy.

    Troop Choice and Skill Lists:

    The witch hunter captain is easy, as he was exactly the same as a mercenary captain, except that he had "Hatred" for spell casters which let him reroll misses in hand to hand during the first turn only. This might be a good special skill to add either under combat or academic skills, much like the skaven have extra skills. That might also be a good way to get the witch hunters to use more crossbow pistols if they had a special skill to improve them.

    All the other bands have their skill lists matched to the champion skills from the old tabletop game, and the witch hunter heroes had access to all the skills except strength. This is fine except for the academic list in warband skirmish. In tabletop the streetwise/wyrdstone hunter/haggle skills applied only to the model using them, but in warband skirmish they apply to the whole band, so having them on all 8 guys is kind of useless (unless they stack? which I don't think they do. you can currently get them on multiple guys by using warlocks, or vampires, but i don't think it does anything?). Having access to academic skills on all your warriors would give you access to more wardogs, which is good for the witch hunters, but a whole skill list for that doesn't seem worthwhile. Maybe with the addition of Hatred that would feel better?

    All the other warbands have two basic troop types to choose from as their warriors (except the skaven). So I think that rather than having a basic troop called the Witch Hunter, that this band should have their basic warriors divided into Zealots and Flagellants. In my mind i see flagellants working a lot like ghouls, only they can equip 1 handed and 2 handed blunt weapons (including the skaven's 2 handed flail), and are immune to leadership instead of causing fear. Also they need to look all ragged in their robes, that's important. Zealots started with lowered stats in tabletop, but had a lot of advancement options, so I think they could take the place of the witch hunter champion heroes. Give them access to all skills but strength, but start them low with more advancement like a dreg. (-10 to weapon skill and ballistic to start, but 8 advances instead of six like a dreg). Also given their equipment choice in tabletop, i think they should start with weapon proficiencies in unarmed, basic melee weapons (not advanced), and crossbows (but not bows or blackpowder). This doesn't exactly mesh with tabletop where they started with bows, but as stated previously, I'd like it if this band leaned on crossbows as it was more traditional for the models in tabletop, and the zealot in this game would become something more like a cross between a witch hunter and a zealot from tabletop.

    I think the warrior priest should be a hired sword for the witch hunters. Like the vampire this will be a very powerful warrior for the band, and I think an increased cost and a requirement of already having four warriors in the band fits that nicely. I looked through the spell list from tabletop, and most of those spells will fit in nicely in warband skirmish. I'm especially looking forward to having a heal spell. I also want to say here that I think adding sigmarite warhammers at this stage would be a mistake. By giving crossbow pistols and wardogs to the mercenary warbands, some of what was iconic about the witch hunters has been diluted across the whole game. I think the sigmarite weapons should be held back until the Sisters of Sigmar come out, and belong solely to them. What do you guys think about the witch hunter captain being able to learn the prayers of sigmar, the way mercenaries can learn warlock magic? If academic skills are available to basic troops in this game, should they all be able to learn prayers? What would the trade off/penalty be for that, since prayers can be cast in armor? Is their short range nature enough?

    All of these things I've mentioned were true in the tabletop game, but it would make the witch hunters very strong. So strong, in fact, that they were limited to a smaller warband size than the human mercenaries, which is something warband skirmish doesn't allow for. Their warriors are already lacking strength skills like the marienburgers, and my proposal would start them with lower stats. Is that enough to balance them in warband skirmish? Does something else need to be done to limit their power? What are your thoughts?

    Sorry that was a long post, and I understand if you didn't read it all. I'm just really excited about the witch hunters. I hope that if a developer reads this, and development has stopped for some reason which is why we've had such a long wait, that they will tell us so I can stop hoping for nothing.
    Oscar and Prabdeep Bazaz like this.
  2. Shangular Major

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    I've actually faced a Witchhunter warband (must of slipped through testing) :)

    You have several good suggestions above. For me, the overall key is that whatever is done, playing Witchhunters would feel like a different warband, not just in skin, but in how they play to win
  3. Trapsinger Major

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    There was a bug, when the Undead first came out. They have to play against the witch hunters in the tutorial, and that witch hunter band was briefly available for someone to create a band for a while. I have one, but it's extremely unfinished. All the speech bubbles are blank, they can't equip any armor or helmets, and they are otherwise just middenheimers with a different banner. But they have the same skill and warrior choices as the middenheimers, and all the same weapons.
  4. FlaminGallahs2089 Corporal

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    Wicth Hunter Captain - Elite probably one of the best captains, like Skaven.
    Zealot - Better version of Dreg.
    Flagellants - Better version of Ghoul.
    Hired swords-
    Warrior Priest - beast version of warlocks (as they are solid in combat to)
    Witch Hunter - Not as great as captain but still solid
    Knight/ Freelancer
    Excutioner - Less wounds than an ogre, more damage

    Making them like a glass cannon would be nice
    Limiting both skill trees but not getting rid of them (Melee and Range) but upgrading stealth and economic
    So they wont win a range battle outright, or a melee cofrontation straight up.
    But by picking soft targets and using their more all round style and stealth to soften other warbands

    As such the counter playstle would be a armoured group that stays close together, and Witchhunters will require emense amount of thinking on pvp as you have to force the warband to split up or soften them up before a melee engagement.

    Making them a combo of Vampires/ human bands
    But they have some elite troops that are better than their other human counterparts, yet not as good as vamp, and then others who are limited.

    I was thinking about this quite recently also, I have always dreamed of using Witchhunters
    Though with other updates recently (Ogres/Poison both large) and their reasources limited I feel its a mixture of resticted time, and wanting to make sure witch hunters solid before adding.
    Well at least I hope thats the reasoning and they havent just stopped.
  5. Jesse Shaffer Corporal

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    The thoughts on Witch Hunters in this thread are fantastic. Didn’t it take quite a while for the Undead to come out after the Skaven were released. It was about six months, wasn’t it? If so, then take heart OP because we’re just about due. I’ll use my ESP to take a wild stab in the dark and say November. I just hope we don’t have to wait until the iPhone 14 comes out for the Possessed! :D
  6. Paolo Nesti Private

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    Waiting for them...
  7. morjax YouTuber & Moderator

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    I really like the idea of witch hunters having access to wardogs without a rarity check - in other words, it is simply always available to all their models (or perhaps all mêlée units but not archers?).

    I am so ready for Hatred as a specialty skill to reroll/negate a miss in the first round of combat. Sounds shiny!!

    I am looking forward to the day that Sigmar's wrath comes to the City of the Damned with Witch Hunters! =D

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