Tavern and Hired Swords

Discussion in 'Bugs / Suggestions / Support' started by Marquand, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. Overwatch Community Manager

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    Once you've filled your Warband up (with 7 units - whether that be with Warriors or Marksmen) the last available slot will always be made available for a hired sword. So essentially your Warband will consist of 7 normal units and a hired sword.
  2. etherkye Major

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    That sucks.

    What if I want 8 marksmen?
  3. Overwatch Community Manager

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    As there's always a spot for the hired sword, you would only be able to get 7 marksmen.
  4. Chaosticket Major

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    Okay so the actual maximum warband size is 7 without mercenaries. Why didnt you say so earlier?
  5. etherkye Major

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    I don't want 7 marksman and a hired sword, I want 8 marksman.

    I want that fixed.
  6. Overwatch Community Manager

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    I can't make any promises that changes will happen. I can only put your ideas forward to the rest of the team and explain your frustrations with the current system. You're given enough Fate from the start to be able to fill that slot with a hired sword, but of course, I understand that at any point you could lose that unit...

    I wasn't asked about Warband size earlier, otherwise, I'd have stated that this is the case.
  7. Chaosticket Major

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    I try to make a summary of all this.

    #1 Mercenaries, mostly Freelancers, are poorly balanced in combat as the changes between systems makes them better characters with skills to remove their weaknesses and improve drastically. Theyre also living loopholes to ruin the economic balance of Gold. You dont have to pay Gold for them or their equipment, and Full Plate Armor is quite expensive. Only balances I see are they cant sell their equipment upgrade to Gromril equipment. For all I know they have Gromril weapons already. Theres basically no point in ever using Warriors.

    #2 Mercenaries block out recruitment of regular characters. It starts out by reducing the pool of available recruits. It works its way up until you only have bad recruits and mostly Mercenaries to choose from. Eventually as you said that its not possible to have a full warband of non-Mercenaries.
  8. etherkye Major

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    I disagree amount the balance of gold. Hiring one gives a massive bump to your warband rating. That makes up for the kit they have.

    However I really think they should be moved to a different place so you can ALWAYS pick from 4 normal people, and 2 merc's.
  9. Chaosticket Major

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    Agreed already on making enough space for Mercenaries and regular warband henchmen.

    Ive seen it often enough I think their should be a cap on the number of mercenaries. Ive seen 3-4 of them in some warbands, outnumbering the regulars,
  10. Overwatch Community Manager

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    Mercenaries will only start appearing in the Tavern once you've recruited your 4th unit. After that, there will be one hired sword in the tavern and 3 other units to choose from. When you get your 5th unit another hired sword will become available (which now makes 2 in the tavern), then goes up to 3 hired swords when you've hired your 6th member.

    Just so we're clear freelancers come with:
    • Full plate armour
    • Mask Helm
    • Reik Sword & Imperial Skull Shield OR Great Sword OR Comet Halberd
  11. etherkye Major

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    You can have a team with 8 merc's if you want.

    It's really annoying when people do.
  12. Chaosticket Major

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    Well I finally got my 7th warband member today and yes the tavern is completely made up a 100% mercenaries . There are no warband members for me to legitimately recruit with gold at all.

    SO the 8th warband slot is rubbish.
  13. ScubaSteve Major

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    Good points all. Maybe Chaosticket a compromise would work. What if you could hire Mercenaries for either Gold or Fate?

    Having the option certainly seems like a good idea.
  14. Chaosticket Major

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    Hiring Mercenaries for gold would be a problem in that, as stated many times by Overwatch, you can purchase anything a Freelancer mercenary has equipped. You can actually make a better character like Gromril Armor, Flame Sword, and a Champion Helm.

    So paying gold for them would be way too expensive and a limited options for equipment. I would expect if they did them the shop would open up buying Gold for Cash.

    In Theory like the original Mordheim you could hire them for certain periods, like [blank] number of battles or a length of time such as 7 days, and they would be more reasonable in cost. That presents a problem in that leveling them up would be a waste. Or make it so every mercenary has to be upkept with a gold fee after every battle like originally. It would make people think twice about relying on them when they eat all you income.

    Putting in an upkeep cost now would help balance them out.
  15. Marquand Major

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    Haha funny. Mercenries are very weak later in the campaign, I have no objections if someone wants to spend precious fate points for a) warrior that cannot be rearmed b)who can only get a certian set of skills and xps very slowly. I'm only more than happy when I see warband with more than 2 hired swords.

    In original Mordheim you hired them and either you had money to pay for their service or not - if you couldn't afford upkeep cost hired sword you said goodbye to elf ranger, whtever. There were no time periods unless it was Dramatis Persona character like Aenur.
  16. Chaosticket Major

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    Campaign? this game has no campaign.

    I dont have mercenaries in my warband so bare with me, but unless Im mistaken they can have any skill although shooting would be useless.

    Freelance could still get up to 17 hit points and a defense of 65-80 with default equipment, skills, and consumables.
    Full Plate armor, a closed helm, and a Greatsword are basically the penultimate tier. Gromril would be better, but gromril armor is only a 5% defense difference. Thats still about 500-700 gold in equipment on a character you can start with.

    With the right skill choices you have a Freelancer juggernaut moving 5-10 per turn with over a dozen hit points and a -15% chance to be hit at range.

    Im getting a handful of shards after each battle worth 6-9 gold each and you have something worth 10 times that. Yeah thats just screwed up.

    Pit fighters are a joke by comparison because of their equipment, or really lack of it i dont think the spike in their off-hand even works.
  17. morjax YouTuber & Moderator

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    Can we get a confirmation by the dev team on this? My own thoughts are that it would be wonderful to always have at least one of each non-mercenary available on any given day (at least one warrior and one marksman, for example).

    Edit: This got clarified later on: You can hire 7 warriors or marksman, but can only get to 8 members through hired swords. I still feel the same way about having a minimum of non-hired swords on any given day.
  18. Chaosticket Major

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    So how about blocking off the 8th warband slot to everyone for fairness?
  19. Madthing Private

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    Had to do some necromancy on this thread because i can t agree with that.
    This is just not true.
    Hired swords do come with skill and /or stat you can t get. Tell me what skill does the +20% leadership or the extra control A skaven packmaster get over giant rats?
    I assume it will be true with vampire for undead,
    This lead to another game breaking davantage.
    Only your leader can become à spell caster (assuming you ever find the magical tome/shard needed. And even then the price prevent you to ever get a level 3 spell caster at the beginning of the game.). This means that you must sacrifice your strongest team member
    With fate you can have both your strong full plate leader AND à sorcerer, and that is just à too huge advantage over other warbands
    You have to change that. Every henchmen should be able with time to follow a special class path

    Anything that is not just cosmetic that is behind à paywall IS pay-to-win

    Last but not least, we already paid to unlock factions. When i buy skaven i am supposed to have them all. Whe you buy a car i dont Want to pay again for the 4th And 5th gear
  20. 2mBrick Private

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    I'm not sure I agree with you completely, but 3 Fate is too little, IMHO. I seem to recall that some Skaven HS are 7-12 Fate, and while 12 might be too much 5-6 Fate would be better.

    The combo of mage and heavy-armoured leader isn't totally OP. The mage's damage output is OK-ish, but the guy is practically naked and can be Doom-ed or taken out by bowmen (which out-range him). Luck of Shemtek is useful, maybe, but I don't think it's ever turned the tides of battle for me. Flight of Zimmeran isn't useful at all, and Flaming Sword is pointless, since the Warlock can be thrashed in close combat anyway.

    The heavily-armoured Captain is OP, I agree, but I don't think the Warlock impacts that much. Gromril is Gromril, with or without magic.

    In conclusion, I have to disagree with you here. The Warlock is too cheap for what he does, yes, and is super useful, yes, but what he does can't significantly change the course of battle, and he doesn't significantly change the fact that a Champion Helm, Gromril Axe, Imperial Skull Shield, and Gromril is still a force of destruction.

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