Tests, cheese, exploits and others.

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by CzaRus, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. CzaRus Major

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    Greetings. I have finally forced myself to share some "cheese" with you, as well as I want to ask for help in my tests. You see, testing something on AI is rather difficult at best, and I want to publicly share all the test results here. I am by no means the best one to do it, but I consider myself one of the "Old Guard". Here I shall post things players should take some notes of before they blame their loss on cheats and whatnot, and I will mention some counters, too. These include standart game mechanics as well. I will update this thread as will be needed. Oh, and do not worry about stolen valor. Many things were found by more players, I just wanted to mention a few of them, if anybody felt like he needs to be listed I will do so.

    Turn skipping and " Alpha strike"
    You may preform 2 turns in a row is you have high enough Initiative and if you skip turns. Skip button doesnt end your turn first time you tap it, only moves your character to the end of the queue, and then you may preform your move. Widely used in both single player and multiplayer, note that AI will never skip turns. The player who achieves first blood by skipping a turn with second turn immediate follow-up has preformed an "Alpha strike".
    You may defend yourself from Alpha strike by skipping turns as well, that way you negate the opponents ability to attack twice in a row. [Explained by Shangular]

    Spell exploits
    Lesser magic: Dual pistols offer most (pistollier perk required and 100% efficiency is only achievable by Merc captains) ways to f' up the system, they always did.
    Silver Arrows have standart 3 shots. If you cast them and move, you will still only have 3 shots. If you have Quick shot perk however, you may move, then cast spell and you will have 4 shots. If you have dual pistol equipped as well, you may fire 5 times with your magic bow. Still close-medium range only.
    If you fire pistols 3 times, you may then fire silver arrows 5 times = 8 shots per turn. Combine with Alpha strike for maximum efficiency.
    Sword of Rezhebel (aka fire sword in community) disables you primary weapon. But dual pistol still works (this exploit was not present before Reik speed nerf), for some reason, so you can cast spell, charge enemy and still shoot twice. If you cast or hold sword and stand still, you may fire 3 times. If you already hold sword, you may charge, swing sword and fire pistols and if target is KO you can cast silver arrows and fire another 5 shots. [Found and confirmed by CzaRus]
    Prayers of Sigmar: more tests required
    Chaos magic: After preforming Lure of Chaos (aka Mind control), the game shall not end after wiping the enemy if you have some opponent still under mind control. You will have to wait as you can not charge this model. Tricky with Skaven low leadership. [Found by Algidras]--------[fixed]

    Movement blocking
    Right now, standing on the top floor of some buildings models will occupy spots below them, mainly noticable with ladders and jump points. This can be abused to force opponents to go longer paths or to block some spots completely. Always make sure you have Rope&Hook on every model that can have it (Ogres can not), so you mitigate this chance. Standing above or below jump points will also block hostile movement. Mind, that model standing on a 3rd floor above a ladder/jump point which is located on 2nd floor will also occupy said 2nd floor, which is an exploit. Only 2 efficient countermeasures would be to block ladders to 3rd floor and spam damage spells or shoot them to bits.
    [Found and confirmed by Cyberaddict and CzaRus]-----[fixed]
    3rd floor specifically is now bugged as hell. You can completely deny ALL movement of the enemy's few models. Hard to really show with AI, will need someone to help me get the screenshots from both perspectives. Let me know on Discord if you are interested.
    [Found by CzaRus, confirmation required]

    Consumables&Equipables
    Holy Relic: Will past any Leadership test including both Fear and All Alone, even may unstun you if your captain is stunned so he may past the test. Doesn't stack.
    Blunderbuss: You may only target foes up to 16 squates (=8/8 movement), but the burst will hit EVERYTHING past that range. Used and abused by everyone, keep your units somewhat spread to avoid having half your band shot to death by consumables.
    Lucky Charm: description says "may ignore first hit", fact is that models will ALWAYS ignore the first hit, basically absorb any first damage no matter how strong, spells too. Doesn't stack.
    Mandrake root: tests required

    Mutations
    Further tests and examines required

    Cloning Henchmen
    Ever wanted to have a perfect " band of brothers"? Now is the time! Find a good henchman, hire, (fire the captain if you will, that will make the henchman new captain), go main menu, load band and tada! You can hire the same person again. Up to 4 times use, as hired swords will appear next. Possible on all warbands and all models if you have enough finances and space. This way, you may also reroll shop for cheaper gear you need, very usefull. [Found and confirmed by CzaRus]


    RNG reroll
    Fear like your mutations or new learned spell from book will suck? Fear no more! Go offline, load band, level up/use books, you don't like the result? Go main menu, and archive band while still offline. Now go online, download band from archive, Tada! All skill points unspent and books as well, now fight one battle (that will reset RNG) go offline and try again. Repeat until content. [Found and confirmed by Algidras]

    More to come soon...
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  2. Cyberaddict Major

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    It’s not a big deal, but AI is known to skip turns sometimes with ranged units.

    Also, Blunderbuss, Holy Relic and Lucky Charm are not consumables, in the sense that they are not consumed once used. They are, however, limited to one use per game (but are still in your inventory after that use, you don’t have to buy another dose... unlike herbs).

    Thanks a lot for this guide! I shall do what I can to update the wiki. :)
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  3. Enajien Major

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    Got an update to the dark pact offline fix to RNG. You do not need to fight to reset the RNG on the dark pact. It resets every time you open a new menu. IE Temple, camp, shop etc. So you can go offline, open camp, test your RNG. If you don't like it: reset the band, reload it, go to temple, then go to camp, test your new RNG. Repeat... temple, temple, camp... Repeat... temple, temple, temple, camp... repeat... etc. That is until you get so tired of you it you just do a fight to reset.
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  4. Erkebrand Major

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    This also works for being able to know how much a skill will rise your rating.
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  5. Shangular Brigadier

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    Good summary. I think for wiki we should clarify which are legit vs exploits. Definition of legit being that the effect was intended by the developers. From that list you have above, the Alpha Strike and Movement Blocking are legit imo.

    Alpha Strike - to add, AI will skip turn on the capture the small circle scenarios if one of their warriors with any ranged attack abilities reaches a small circle and there is no enemy in charge range.

    Movement Blocking - when I first started playing, I recall that both your models and opponents used to block pathways. After many complaints by the community, Legendary allowed you to move through your own models. I think this logically makes sense as obviously an enemy won't make it easy to gets walk through them.

    Lucky Charms: Good way to negate Doom :)

    Cloning Henchmen: You may want to add that upon creating a new warband, check the Tavern, if you don't like what you see, delete the warband and create another one until you find a good warrior. This was a similar exploit back in the days when people would constantly spam warbands to get that perfect captain. To avoid spamming their servers, Legendary "normalized" all captains, but you can still do this to get good warriors in tavern. At least now you can delete warbands.
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  6. Cyberaddict Major

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    Blocking a ladder or jump spot with a unit is very legit, and I use frequently. However, it becomes an exploit when the unit standing on the third floor blocks the ladder that goes from ground to second floor (it's one floor away, and it's "ghost" on the second floor is blocking the ladder).

    Another exploit is playing against yourself with another device, using a private game code. New Warbands can get +10 underdog bonus when the higher rated warband disconnects, and free shards (as well as quick reset of the Store and Tavern). This exploit is not legit, and developpers should do something about it. Some archetypes would have a hard time developing to competitive level without the help of this exploit.

    Buying the Map of Mordheim to grind the University District for magic items is another exploit (Defend the Find scenario as the Attacker). I don't know if it is legit, but many builds would require A LOT MORE PATIENCE to get their unit(s) to a certain effective power level. Making the Map of Mordheim a rare or very rare item would certainly fix this exploit, as well as removing the Map of Mordheim from the possible rewards from looting the University District.
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  7. CzaRus Major

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    Please, put suggestions on removing exploits to Suggestions. Not here. Here is a place where you list them and provide intel on how to counter said exploit while playing against someone abusing them.

    Grinding a map is not an exploit by any means, it is but a standart, intended game mechanic which any player able to count together 2+2 will figure out himself. Full stop.
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  8. Shangular Brigadier

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    Perhaps make the Map of Mordheim more expense to buy? Sometimes though you do get garbage and don't get your return on the map if unlucky (ragged robes, see no evil crap). But of course when you get a Tome, you make out big.

    But farming maps has been done since the very beginning of the game. Before it was the Palace Gardens with those multiple drops per corpses. That's how older warbands would get thousands of gold and stock up on like 300 crimson shades, mushrooms :)
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  9. Shangular Brigadier

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    Dual boxing has always been an issue even before the private codes. When PVP used to be active a couple if years ago, there were certain warbands that did this to farm shards. I know of a couple warbands that would always que but immediately disconnect if I happen to enter their game. They were probably trying to matchup with their lose team.

    An easy way to hinder this would be to only allow one Game Center account at a time to hit the PVP server. However, players can simply create another Game Center account to get around it so it is difficult to resolve entirely. This issue is common in many games that have a competitive PVP ranking. I used to play a mobile game where there were players who had like 8 devices to farm pvp rating.
  10. Cyberaddict Major

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    I've tested the RNG reroll exploit. I found that, doing so, I was able to clone the Store's inventory.
    1. Bought Tome of Magic for 370 gold.
    2. Go to main screen, offline, load warband.
    3. Use Tome of Magic to learn the spell I wanted.
    4. An other Tome of Magic, also priced at 370 gold was there. I bought it.
    5. Repeat 2-3 above (offline, load, use tome). Again, AN OTHER Tome of Magic (370 gold) was there. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough to buy it this time.
  11. Cyberaddict Major

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    It should be noted that it's possible to clone Henchmen AFTER the creation of the Warband, using the same technique. Your developped Sisters were looking for that perfect chick to join the party? You find her and have enough gold? Buy her, exit, reboot and load Warband, and she'll be there again, the perfect twin sister. :)

    Also, and most importantly, it's possible to also clone Hired Swords that way. I tested this with my new Elite Witch Hunters Warband, where I was able to clone the first good elf I found in Tavern (Shrine). Unforturnately, it was in the 2nd slot (I had Captain + 4 henchmen [and Priest] to unlock the 2nd slot and double my chances to find the best elf). After buying the twin, my Warband was full with 8 units. I had to dismiss a Henchmen (down to 3), which deleted the 2nd Hired Sword from the Tavern (only one Hired Sword appears in Tavern when you have Captain + 3 Henchmen). I guess I could have cloned a 3rd Elf if he would have been in the first slot.

    Not an exploit, but it should be noted that dismissing the Warrior-Priest to buy a 4th Elf Ranger doesn't work in a Witch Hunter Warband. The nice elf you'll have found in the Tavern would automatically be replaced by another Warrior-Priest when you do so. Witch Hunters can thus have a Warrior-Priest + 3 other Hired Swords, but not 4 Hired Swords with no Warrior-Priest.
  12. CzaRus Major

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    Great use of exploits on practice. Not doing so may fell right, but this just saves SO MUCH TIME.
  13. Shangular Brigadier

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    There's another exploit that I've used to farm high level PVP opponents. This works better if you turn off wifi as I think its the lag in connecting with the server that allows you to do this.

    Start with a high level warband and wait for a PVP opponent to que. When you see the pop window of a high level warband looking for an opponent, simply go back to the main menu, replace your high level warband with a lower rated warband in the same slot and then quickly go to PVP and enter. It doesn't always work, but when it does, you can match up an 8,000 rated warband with your 800 point warband :)
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