Thoughts on Templar Crossbows

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Shangular, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Shangular Major

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    I'm been trying out a Witchhunter warband and I know a big characteristic that makes them unique are the crossbow pistols and the ability to dual wield them. However, has anyone found that skill useful? Given that they are only strength 30 and no defense reduction, they usually do no damage to armored opponents. I'm working on trying to level up the BS skills as WH captains can get up to 70 vs the usual 65 for everyone else. So maybe with may result in having a better chance to damage an armored opponent, but I'm not sure of the programming for those calculations? I've read the combat mechanics thread and that BS is supposed to increase your chance to hit, but from my experience, having higher BS seems to also increase the likely hood of doing more damage. Not sure if that's just a misperception or if there is a calculation behind hat?

    What do others think so far of this weapon?
  2. Trapsinger Major

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    So I like it as an intermediary step, and a cosmetic option. Getting one point in crossbows on all my melee guys gives them an extra attack early, and it fires every turn with no other investment (unlike blackpowder pistols which require BS 40, hunter and 2 points in blackpowder to fire every turn.) Also because it's based on BS instead of WS it lets them shoot freely at higher level opponents because it bypasses the opposed weapon skill check to hit.

    Also, I was speaking to a dev the other day, and they only added it because I asked them to in my suggestion thread a while back. I made the point that in tabletop hand crossbows were Witch Hunter only, and in this everyone got them, so the witch hunters should have something to make them better at using the crossbows, like perhaps a crossbow pistolier skill. And here it is! Sorry.

    the other advantage to getting 1 point in crossbows before going to blackpowder is that it unlocks the trick shooter skill as well (you don't get that from blackpowder, and it only requires 1 point in crossbows not two). So when I make a new zealot and I want him to melee i get one point in crossbows as my first choice always, it's a free extra attack for very little investment, it doesn't hurt your warband rating much, it's a good stepping stone if you want to go blackpowder pistols later, and it gets refunded if you choose to go fanatic, so it's never a waste.

    Then I usually just sit one point in crossbows for a long time, until i have my WS maxed, some extra wounds, and some initiative skills. Then I either switch to fanatic, or skill up in blackpowder.

    That said, I did try out dual wielding them for a while. They have more range than the blackpowder versions, and they can still shoot into melee from very far away, fully skilled you get three shots with them per turn if you don't move, it's really not a terrible option in my mind. I'd say it's probably better than the repeater crossbow since you can fire into a combat.

    As to mechanics, after you successfully hit (if it works like melee) then you roll to hit again for each 10 points of strength to see if you do damage. Which means the higher your BS the more likely you are to do full damage for the strength of the weapon. So the max damage doesn't change, but your average goes up, if you have higher BS.
    Double Misfire likes this.
  3. Jesse Shaffer Corporal

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    My feeling is that since Witch Hunters were the only ones who could use crossbow pistols in TT, they should at least be the only ones able to use them competitively in late game on mobile. Dual wielding is a great start but they're still missing a skill. What they need is the shooting skill equivalent of the Skaven's Perfect Killer (applies a -15 defense modifier to damage) but effecting crossbows only.

    It’s the lack of a defense modifier that makes crossbows so forgettable. This would certainly help Witch Hunters feel unique longer and thus playing with them and against them more fun for everyone.
  4. Igenham Corporal

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    Maybe they could have access to more special bolts? Maybe a flaming bolt, piercing bolt, explosive bolt (one-time use, probably), so they can go Van Helsing on the nasty witches...

    Food for thought
  5. Jesse Shaffer Corporal

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    I’m all for flaming and explosive bolts but I doubt the devs will ever implement them. I’d totally love to be wrong though. Perfect Killer, on the other hand, is a mechanic that’s already in the game and gives a defense modifier. It would be comparatively trivial for the developers to copy the code to shooting skills, make the required changes, and slap on a new graphic.
  6. Igenham Corporal

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    So I just played against a witch hunter warband that all had had crossbows, and they were pretty nasty against my Middenheimers... I have a pretty close to max armor warriors, and the hand crossbow did at least 75% of the damage inflicted against me. While II never did exceed 3 dmg, it was very effective in chipping away at my health (they did almost no dmg with their other weapons).

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