Troop Diversity

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by FlaminGallahs2089, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. FlaminGallahs2089 Major

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    I thought that the undead, and possibly skaven have very little hired sword options, especially when compared to humans.

    Even will the thrall on the way that gives the undead,
    Vamp-Thrall-Warlock-Ogre as the hired swords,
    Since they were in one of the extended warbands were the skellies.
    Wights, Liche Priests ect.
    By combining these to warbands I feel this would giv enough versatility to the undead.
    To do this you put Wights as a normal troop, (high wounds, high defence, low WS, pretty much where ghouls attack, wights hold)
    Give the Dregs a buff of some sort (I was thinking making them more supportive a buff to the vampire and thralls?) And make them hired swords.
    This makes which hired sword to get for undead more complex,
    As each has a benefit,
    Vamp is guarantied,
    Ogre, a great pin cushion, but lacks stealth of a Thrall which lacks astayability compared to ogre,
    Dreg buffs others, thus making them much better in combat whilst being solid himself.
    Warlock does magic.
    Making many viable Warbands (much like humans)
    Liche Priests would be a bit of a strange inclusion, as then would probably just be a necro that buffs wights, but that would add more variability.

    I just see this as more a possibility now that many human warbands troops are being molded into the current ones.

    Whats everyones thoughts on this?
    Is there a war to give skaven more hired swords and as such variety to?
  2. Double Misfire Major

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    Undead have got plenty of variety. Don't forget that they've got ghouls and necromancers in addition to baseline dregs as non hired sword warriors, they get a choice of two pets, and that pit fighters and freelancers (the only hired swords available to mercenary warbands and not undead) are just variants of baseline warriors.

    Wights are very rare/elite and would more likely be found in cairn mounds in the wilderness and not stalking a destroyed city;skeletons would work mechanically identically to zombies, who tie into Mordheim better thematically, and Lich Priests typically spend their time dropping incantations on another freaking continent. IIRC (it's been 15 years), the extended warbands you mention had wights and skeletons in the rural Empire in Flames setting, and Lich Priests as part of a Tomb King warband, thousands of miles from the Empire.


    Skaven have got two very distinct hired swords, the rat ogre, and the most unique playstyle and set of equipment options currently in game by a very wide margin.

    This thread is silly! :D;)
  3. FlaminGallahs2089 Major

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    Okay I didnt know lore of liche priests.
    (I dont know much lore I was just reading from a story and saw then in the wights warband and thought hmm may as well mention, I did state that it would be a weird inclusion)
    I look at it from a gameplay perspective

    Though none the less, it feels the vamps and skaven are not as thorough at human mercenaries.

    Human mercenaries have
    Captain - Warrior - Marksman - Pit Fighter - Freelancer - Warlock - Ogre - Halfling
    Wardog

    Undead have
    Necromancer - Dreg - Ghoul - Vampire - Warlock - Ogre
    Zombie - Direwolves

    Late game, pets become seemingly useless in most cases...

    So once the Thrall comes round this may change a little,
    But the undead have two main play styles,
    Huge mound of flesh that bulldozers through warbands (Ogres, Dregs, Vamp)
    Or
    A kiting agile strike force (Warlocks, Ghouls, Vamp)
    I veiw the thrall as most likely adding in a more ambush based warband of (Thralls, Ghouls, Vamp)

    Human warbands have multiple, with their weaknesses being covered by hired swords...
    Undead dont, they have limited hire swords that are just slight adaptions to their current troops (other than warlock, a ogre acts as a large dreg, and a thrall would act as a lesser vamp)
    I know my suggestion is not great.
    But I feel that the game would benefit by more variety in the undead and skaven (maybe hired swords from other clans, thus a plague bearer or stronger version of rat ogres could be introduced)

    If you have a better solution to this problem then please enlighten me,
    I spend alot of time playing undead, so I deserve an opinion apon them, and this is my opinion nothing more.
  4. Trapsinger Brigadier

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    I think you are counting the humans wrong. In a Middenheimer warband for example, the marksman, the warrior, and the pit fighter all get the same skills, weapons, appearances. so they might be more accurately called one troop type. not to mention the difference between that and a captain is very small, and the captains get the same spells as the warlock. So with very little variety in builds or magic, humans get to be pretty much the same all the time. In the undead warband the warlock has different magic from the necro, the vampire has wildly different stats and performance, the dregs and ghouls are nothing a like. I think you are arguing for variety in the wrong direction.
    Double Misfire likes this.
  5. Double Misfire Major

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    Trapsinger put it much better than I could have.

    If anything, Empire Mercenary warbands should be the most flexible "all rounders" in the game with a variety of different playstyles to choose from, with Undead much less flexible, and made up of powerful heroes and wizards, leading slow, rubbish minions reliant on not running away and being able to cause fear. Warhammer baby!
  6. FlaminGallahs2089 Major

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    True, yous make fair points.
    I am extremely vain though and look at it as only names,
    But yous make a fair point,
    And once the thrall comes in I feel this wont really be a problem anyway.
    Though I do think humans have lot of variety, yall have comvinced me undead do to...

    Sorry aboit stupid thread, thought just passed through head
    Double Misfire likes this.
  7. Trapsinger Brigadier

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    What makes you think the thrall is coming? I haven't heard anything about that?
  8. Jesse Shaffer Major

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    You mean he might be mistaken? :(
  9. Trapsinger Brigadier

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    Well the thrall isn't a model from original mordheim so I don't know why it would be. Unless he knows something I don't.
  10. Double Misfire Major

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    :confused:

    Surely the vampire currently available to lead the undead warband is a thrall? Thralls were a hero level character, and the lowest available vampire 'rank' in WFB prior to the introduction of units of Blood Knights in 7th edition. He sure ain't a lord or count!
  11. Trapsinger Brigadier

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    In the PC version of mordheim "city of the damned" it was a female hero and the male vampire led the band. But she never existed in the original source material of tabletop mordheim.
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  12. FlaminGallahs2089 Major

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    I thought city of the damned was exactly the same as original source material my bad.
    (Never player either)
    But I was under the impression they were all reasonably linked.
  13. Trapsinger Brigadier

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    city of the damned took a lot of liberties. They added new units that hadn't previously existed to several warbands, and removed all the diversity from human mercenaries by consolidating them into one warband. they rewrote almost all the skills. It really didn't resemble the original mordheim or it's lore much at all.
  14. Arnold Private

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    Yeah, city of the damned is really different from the old table top. Skirmish is much nearer to it.
    In the old tabletop, the skaven only had access to the warlock. As a minus, there were no packmasters.

    The Undead only had access to warlocks and ogres. Both warbands weren´t famous for their compapilitiy to mercanaries.

    The big diffenrence between skirmish and the old tt is that lot´s of warband members are mercanries in skirmish, like the vampire, the eshin scorcerer or the priest of sigmar.

    That is obviously to earn money, and not for style.

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