Very bald idea

CzaRus

Major
Cyberaddict's sobbing finally reached me, to a degree. He was right about solo-ing 1 model vs full/half complete bands in one aspect ---> fighting multiple opponents just by yourself would get you killed very fast, but the game REWARDS such heroism by adding +1 A. How about for every additional model someone is fighting by himself, he would lose 5 WS? Just came to me..... Imagine:
Master combatant meets his match. They fight equally, until somebody comes in and helps his opponent. Now it is way harder to keep track of 2 opponents/weapons at the same time. And a dog comes in, our hero suddenly can hardly fend off 3 attackers at once...
Our hero lost 10 WS in fight alone against 3, thus their skill difference was more less balanced and eventually he got owerwhelmed.

This slight change in the core of the game's mechanics would achieve:
1)No more Solo OP pls nerf, just stick together.
2)No more useless Pets. Nobody really uses them atm, they would be usefull through the whole game as assistants against harder enemies.
3)Encouragement to hire more members, even noobs will be somewhat usefull, the atmosphere would feel much more like warbands fighting.

I hope I was clear enough.... Feel free to criticise!
 

Erkebrand

Major
I like the idea, but what about giant rats spam? Sometimes you get surrounded by skaven swarms, if there is a limit of WS penalty like 10-15 sounds nice, but imagine this. You get surrounded by 8 rats, that's -40ws and would make them really hard to kill since you need to spend 8 attacks to kill them all.

Anyway, I like it, dogs and other pets will be useful this way but a limit is needed I think
 

Adam Smith

Lead Software Developer
Staff member
Great suggestion CzaRus, thanks for taking the time to post it. I'll take it to the design team and get back to you.
 

Enajien

Major
I like the idea that you suffer penalties for multiple opponents. But I would rather it be psychology tests rather than WS reduction. There is already all alone tests. Why not make them apply whenever you fight outnumbered, even if an ally is near by. Then have combat master, instead of making you immune, reduce the number by like 2 so you need 4 enemies to cause you to make all alone test. Then if you really want to make it rough add a -5 or -10 LD per model to all alone tests.

Of course neither your WS reduction or my psychology test would fix a solo captain with flight... Charge in, kill something, fly away.
 

Shangular

Brigadier
Still don’t agree with your first point about solos being an issue. Same when Cyber brought that up. Based on actual PvP gameplay experience multiple half developed warriors can already kill a solo easily.

1). My Marienburgers dual pistols warriors have done so many times. Even against higher rated solo warbands. That one Sons of Witches warbands kept getting killed to the point of frustration where he had to use a cheat to win lol.

2). Skaven warbands with warp lock or throwing star build can easily kill a solo warrior

3). 3-4 elves can easily kill a solo warrior.

4). Developed warbands can easily kill solos

There are so many ways to kill a solo where I don’t feel it’s an issue. You don’t have to have a fully developed warrior to beat it, you just need to have a good development path and equipment and good positioning tactics. Plus again the solo concept is also part of a development progression strategy to eventually get to end game fully developed warbands. That is what we should encourage players to do. Endgame probably having a 4400 rated warband based on the last unlocked map opponent
 

CzaRus

Major
Still don’t agree with your first point about solos being an issue. Same when Cyber brought that up. Based on actual PvP gameplay experience multiple half developed warriors can already kill a solo easily.

1). My Marienburgers dual pistols warriors have done so many times. Even against higher rated solo warbands. That one Sons of Witches warbands kept getting killed to the point of frustration where he had to use a cheat to win lol.

2). Skaven warbands with warp lock or throwing star build can easily kill a solo warrior

3). 3-4 elves can easily kill a solo warrior.

4). Developed warbands can easily kill solos

There are so many ways to kill a solo where I don’t feel it’s an issue. You don’t have to have a fully developed warrior to beat it, you just need to have a good development path and equipment and good positioning tactics. Plus again the solo concept is also part of a development progression strategy to eventually get to end game fully developed warbands. That is what we should encourage players to do. Endgame probably having a 4400 rated warband based on the last unlocked map opponent

I personally never stated that Solo was OP, remember I defended solos against Cyber, I just passed on to fact that many inexperienced players were not able to counter them efficiently (Cyber was not a noob), and I simply wanted to share my idea. Other points like no more useless pets seem to be backing it up, don't you find? I didn't write it here to encourage another is solo OP bs debate which never leads to anywhere. We could then complain that something else is OP, this is not a place to discuss that stuff, I simply touched on the fact above.
I agree with every single one of your points, but tell me friend, how many 3-4 elf bands you seen from newer players (if you know any?). Yes, pistolliers are inddeed extremely efficient against solo caps (be it vamps, merc caps or whatever). Tho you sometimes need a direct build on some bands to be efficient at countering fast hard hitting targets with great movement.
 

CzaRus

Major
I like the idea, but what about giant rats spam? Sometimes you get surrounded by skaven swarms, if there is a limit of WS penalty like 10-15 sounds nice, but imagine this. You get surrounded by 8 rats, that's -40ws and would make them really hard to kill since you need to spend 8 attacks to kill them all.

Anyway, I like it, dogs and other pets will be useful this way but a limit is needed I think

If you manage to get yourself surrounded from all sides, you should die. Ever spared 2 or more vs 1? you need a TON of advantages besides skill (reach, armour, terrain...) to beat multiple opponents in a weapon involved combat.
 

CzaRus

Major
I like the idea that you suffer penalties for multiple opponents. But I would rather it be psychology tests rather than WS reduction. There is already all alone tests. Why not make them apply whenever you fight outnumbered, even if an ally is near by. Then have combat master, instead of making you immune, reduce the number by like 2 so you need 4 enemies to cause you to make all alone test. Then if you really want to make it rough add a -5 or -10 LD per model to all alone tests.

Of course neither your WS reduction or my psychology test would fix a solo captain with flight... Charge in, kill something, fly away.

Could be both WS and Ld penalty, good idea!!!
 

Shangular

Brigadier
I agree with 2 and 3 in the original posts.

But here’s the thing for solos, yes newbies won’t have them but we shouldn’t expect a newbie to be able to compete with an experienced player. We want newbies to learn the tactics and mechanics to be an experienced player and then compete. That’s always been my concern in that I don’t want to dumb down the game but want people to understand and learn strategies to be better players.
 

Erkebrand

Major
If you manage to get yourself surrounded from all sides, you should die. Ever spared 2 or more vs 1? you need a TON of advantages besides skill (reach, armour, terrain...) to beat multiple opponents in a weapon involved combat.
I know, I know, but I refer just to skaven bands, each warrior can get a giant rat as pet (actually useless) and a skaven Warband can get 8 warriors+ 8 pets this way + summoned giant rats. They are AI controlled so they will go against the closest objective, and being fearsome is not so terrible if you have a pacmaster on your wb, and all the rats will follow this guy so they will go together. They will die early if you attack them, but you'll have to spend attacks on them ignoring the real risk, meanwhile the real members of the band will have a nice advantage hitting the surrounded guys. Many of us normally focus our target to take down as fast as possible with all the members, that's why I say a limit could be better than being surrounded by 8 guys giving you a -40.

A limit of -20 WS sounds interesting to me. Normally you don't fight against so many enemies, and you won't need more than that. Anyway this mechanic should be a be really nice addition.

I see another interesting point of view to this. Normally when I play and I see 3 marksmen close I try to engage all of them with one of my melee warriors to make them lose a turn, or to prevent them to shoot one of my members. This way 3 marksmen are a bit more dangerous, not as dangerous as being their duck but gives more gameplay, I like it
 
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